Does HCG raise estradiol more/faster than straight testosterone cypionate?

[Westin]

I’m doing 60 mg TC x 2 weekly and just added again 375 IU HCG 3 X weekly. Does the HCG add/raise estradiol faster/more than just the testosterone?

Latest estradiol sensitive at labcorp came back at 48, range < 45. Not to concerned, just curious.

Thanks All.

 

[antelopers]

Anecdotally that seems to be the case for many people.

 

[Cataceous]

Adding hCG to my TRT protocol automatically bumps up estradiol by almost 20 pg/mL. There's some research behind it too:
(PDF) Acute stimulation of aromatization in Leydig cells by human chronic gonadotrophin in vitro

 

[Westin]

Cataceous - How high does it bump your total? Is it a problem? Do you use an AI?

Thanks.

 

[Cataceous]

Cataceous - How high does it bump your total? Is it a problem? Do you use an AI?
...

With my typical testosterone dose hCG use pushes estradiol to low-to-mid 50s pg/mL. Side effects are low-to-moderate, including higher emotional responsiveness, weaker erections, difficulty achieving orgasm. I've used an AI off and on, around 35 mcg [anastrozole] a day when on.

 

[xqfq]

Adding hCG to my TRT protocol automatically bumps up estradiol by almost 20 pg/mL. There's some research behind it too:
(PDF) Acute stimulation of aromatization in Leydig cells by human chronic gonadotrophin in vitro

How much does it increase your total T / free T?

 

[Cataceous]

How much does it increase your total T / free T?

The odd thing is that my increase in testosterone appears to be negligible; the best fit to my data occurs when I assume there's none. I posted the results of my modeling here. The equations take testosterone and AI doses as inputs and predict average serum testosterone and estradiol.

Other guys have reported quite different results, appearing to get large boosts in testosterone from pretty modest amounts of hCG.

 

[antelopers]

The odd thing is that my increase in testosterone appears to negligible; the best fit to my data occurs when I assume there's none. I posted the results of my modeling here. The equations take testosterone and AI doses as inputs and predict average serum testosterone and estradiol.

Other guys have reported quite different results, appearing to get large boosts in testosterone from pretty modest amounts of hCG.

I am like you as well. No boost in total T from HCG use, but my e2 rises from the mid 40s to high 60s with any dose.

 

[Cataceous]

I am like you as well. No boost in total T from HCG use, but my e2 rises from the mid 40s to high 60s with any dose.

Our results raise some questions: Is the extra estradiol produced intratesticularly, as expected? How does our intratesticular testosterone compare to that of those who achieve significant endogenous testosterone production? Is it lower to correspond to the minimal systemic contribution? If it is then why is estradiol production still so efficient?

 

[Gman86]

Yes it will raise E2 a bit faster, due to the half life of HCG being around 2 days, compared to test cyp or a enanthate that’s closer to a week. It’s processed by the body faster than testosterone.

 

[Cataceous]

Yes it will raise E2 a bit faster, due to the half life of HCG being around 2 days, compared to test cyp or a enanthate that’s closer to a week. It’s processed by the body faster than testosterone.

The serum half-life of testosterone released from a testosterone ester has little bearing on this question. The time to peak serum concentration is largely governed by the half-life of pure testosterone in serum, which is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-100 minutes, best guess around 30 minutes. This leads to peak testosterone in the neighborhood of 2-6 hours post-injection. Serum estradiol has a half-life that's maybe an hour, which delays its peak by maybe a couple hours from the testosterone peak.

So with testosterone we can at least make some estimates about when estradiol will rise. But do we know what the situation is with hCG over these shorter periods? Even assuming rapid post-injection absorption, how long does it take to permeate the testicles? And after that, how long does it take to start stimulating the aromatization in Leydig cells? Must hCG raise intratesticular testosterone levels before efficient aromatization occurs, leading to a substantial delay? Without these answers I don't think it's possible to say whether hCG raises estradiol faster than testosterone esters.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Please download my book. I have a bunch of

graphs there about the estradiol effect of hCG and testosterone cypionate or enanthate alone.

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mailchi.mp

 

[TucsonJJ]

I’m doing 60 mg TC x 2 weekly and just added again 375 IU HCG 3 X weekly. Does the HCG add/raise estradiol faster/more than just the testosterone?

Latest estradiol sensitive at labcorp came back at 48, range < 45. Not to concerned, just curious.

Thanks All.

Hi, I am new here... but have read that Estradiol levels "sweet spot" is 15-20... might be possible that yours is high enough to be symptomatic... and many (most?) of these blood test ranges are absurdly wide.... with symptoms being very possible in the upper and lower QUARTILES! Frustrating, but can you imagine a guy feeling the same at total testosterone of 210 (normal) vs 1150 (normal)???

 

[TucsonJJ]

With my typical testosterone dose hCG use pushes estradiol to low-to-mid 50s pg/mL. Side effects are low-to-moderate, including higher emotional responsiveness, weaker erections, difficulty achieving orgasm. I've used an AI off and on, around 35 mcg [anastrozole] a day when on.

Hi, just starting TRT... doing 60mg TC twice/week... 35mcg or anastrozle sounds like a very low dose... I was prescribed 1 mg/week to be taken in split doses... my estradiol before starting TRT was 39.2... I thought a good range was around 20... yours is much higher... are you trying to lower? Also considering HCG, not for fertility, but to hopefully grow my balls bigger and maybe help increase my T...
What about Progesterone? I read it is great, but don't see it mentioned in TRT forums... ? Contraindicated? Thx!

 

[Cataceous]

Hi, just starting TRT... doing 60mg TC twice/week... 35mcg or anastrozle sounds like a very low dose... I was prescribed 1 mg/week to be taken in split doses... my estradiol before starting TRT was 39.2... I thought a good range was around 20... yours is much higher... are you trying to lower? Also considering HCG, not for fertility, but to hopefully grow my balls bigger and maybe help increase my T...
What about Progesterone? I read it is great, but don't see it mentioned in TRT forums... ? Contraindicated? Thx!

Anastrozole is quite strong, so for men one milligram a week is considered a medium-to-large dose. Taking a quarter of that amount lowers my estradiol by ~20 pg/mL. Others may be less sensitive.

There's no magic number for estradiol that's going to work for everyone. Each guy needs to find what works for him, though in general it's good not to stray too far from normals. Healthy young guys have estradiol that—on average—peaks out at around 30 pg/mL. I did go with estradiol in the 50s for a couple years, but lately have used anastrozole to push the average down to around 30.

HCG is is a mixed bag for me, helping with libido and testicular volume but pushing estradiol high enough to require management.

I think progesterone is often overlooked, and guys should test their levels and possibly take action when low. I supplement and see benefits in mood and sleep.

 

[TucsonJJ]

Anastrozole is quite strong, so for men one milligram a week is considered a medium-to-large dose. Taking a quarter of that amount lowers my estradiol by ~20 pg/mL. Others may be less sensitive.

There's no magic number for estradiol that's going to work for everyone. Each guy needs to find what works for him, though in general it's good not to stray too far from normals. Healthy young guys have estradiol that—on average—peaks out at around 30 pg/mL. I did go with estradiol in the 50s for a couple years, but lately have used anastrozole to push the average down to around 30.

HCG is is a mixed bag for me, helping with libido and testicular volume but pushing estradiol high enough to require management.

I think progesterone is often overlooked, and guys should test their levels and possibly take action when low. I supplement and see benefits in mood and sleep.

thanks! Do you do progesterone cream... or some other form?

 

[Cataceous]

thanks! Do you do progesterone cream... or some other form?

Originally I used a topical formulation in oil, but now I include it in injections.

 

[Westin]

Anastrozole is quite strong, so for men one milligram a week is considered a medium-to-large dose. Taking a quarter of that amount lowers my estradiol by ~20 pg/mL. Others may be less sensitive.

There's no magic number for estradiol that's going to work for everyone. Each guy needs to find what works for him, though in general it's good not to stray too far from normals. Healthy young guys have estradiol that—on average—peaks out at around 30 pg/mL. I did go with estradiol in the 50s for a couple years, but lately have used anastrozole to push the average down to around 30.

HCG is is a mixed bag for me, helping with libido and testicular volume but pushing estradiol high enough to require management.

I think progesterone is often overlooked, and guys should test their levels and possibly take action when low. I supplement and see benefits in mood and sleep.

Knocking E2 down by 20 for you, was that with HCG in the mix?

 

[TucsonJJ]

Considering progesterone... but lab Corp lowered their reference range to near ZERO... so hard to know what results mean anymore! My Free T is 5.2... so I think I'll just start with low dosage and see how it feels... TRT at 100mg/week... I have Arimidex, but haven't decided on dosage... have started at .25mg twice a week... my estradiol is 39.2 I have nod decided about HCG... might start with low dose...
I am on catheters... so hoping for some improvement before committing to uro-surgery.

 

[Cataceous]

Knocking E2 down by 20 for you, was that with HCG in the mix?

Yes, but the assumption is that the AI is mainly dropping estradiol created peripherally, and not having much effect on the hCG-driven instratesticular aromatization.