Do I just wait out symptoms after a restart?

[RobO89]

Hopefully this is the right place for this, I recently finished a restart protocol from Defy (HCG 300iu x 14 days then clomid 12.5 x 4 weeks) and being my first restart I wanted to know if what I was experiencing was normal. My test protocol was(250mg test/smaller doses daily/week + 300iu HCG + .125mg Anastrazole as needed)

Symptoms:
Extremely tired, I can sleep for 10+ hours and still be ready to sleep more.
Aching arms and leg muscles, I feel drained
No energy(expected)
Bad ED(sort of expected, have a feeling my estrogen might be out of wack)

Now I completely understand going from a high test level to a low, my body is going to take time to adjust, do I just grin and bear it and wait it out? I have some labs planned to see if the body fired back up, but my fear is I have restarted and I am just going to feel like this because the body was use to 1200 ng/dl total, 39 free T and I am going to continually "feel" the bad when it comes to the low levels I undoubtedly now have.

The reason I did this was for fertility, wasn't working for us prior. So I stopped my testosterone temporarily as well as my Adderall script(a new study came out about medication induced pituitary failure and low sperm due to amphetamines) so we thought it logical to also stop this medicine as well, basically remove all the variables and give it a 6 months to a year and see where we end up.

Thanks for your time

 

[slicktop]

Damn. That's a lot. Did you have a fertility test done before doing all this? Sperm count/quality? I'd hate for you to be putting yourself through all of this without knowing for sure there's something to be gained. Personally, I would have added FSH and perhaps clomid first for a couple of months before cutting everything else out.

 

[RobO89]

I did not, probably should have. The only labcorp near us that did semen analysis was 1hr away, with my odd work schedule it just got put on the burner. We tried conceiving for 1 year, I just assumed it was myself at this point so I took the plunge but yeah its miserable lol. I am going to give it 4 months and I will take a test this time. We did FSH for a few months but $600 a hit was a lot considering I wasn't through an apprenticeship yet. The FSH also seemed to "change" me if that makes sense? My mental state was all sorts of screwed up.

 

[StepbyStep]

What dosage of adderall were you on and for how long? Did you taper or go cold turkey?

 

[RobO89]

I did taper a bit then go cold turkey. I hated the stuff, as odd as that sounds. It's too easy to get use to the high. I don't remember the dosage I wan to say 45mg? I'll have to look into my script records

 

[slicktop]

I mean... not to be a dick, but at this point you've made a major decision regarding your health with absolutely zero evidence that there was anything wrong in the first place. There's tons of men on here who successfully conceived while on test + HCG, so it was honestly nothing more than a crap shoot to get of your meds and hope for a miracle. You'll likely crash all your hormones and kill your sex drive and then wonder why you still can't conceive. I guess... at this point, my personal advice would be to at least continue the HCG to give your own test production a boost and scrape together the money for a sperm test ASAP. Second, if the cost of a sperm test or the FSH was/is an issue, how the hell are you gonna afford all the other baby related stuff? Not trying to lecture, sorry if it seems that way... just trying to understand.

 

[MarkM]

The only labcorp near us that did semen analysis was 1hr away, with my odd work schedule it just got put on the burner.

I think I would have found a way to make an hour drive before going through everything you are now facing. I'm betting if you had it to do over again you would have had the semen tested first.

 

[RobO89]

I mean... not to be a dick, but at this point you've made a major decision regarding your health with absolutely zero evidence that there was anything wrong in the first place. There's tons of men on here who successfully conceived while on test + HCG, so it was honestly nothing more than a crap shoot to get of your meds and hope for a miracle. You'll likely crash all your hormones and kill your sex drive and then wonder why you still can't conceive. I guess... at this point, my personal advice would be to at least continue the HCG to give your own test production a boost and scrape together the money for a sperm test ASAP. Second, if the cost of a sperm test or the FSH was/is an issue, how the hell are you gonna afford all the other baby related stuff? Not trying to lecture, sorry if it seems that way... just trying to understand.

Cost is no longer an issue that was way back before graduating. No debt now besides a mortgage. After 1 year I just assumed it was me even on the HCG, doctors my wife went to checked her and of course immediately pin the blame on me because they're ignorant of test protocols and all the meds.

Not sure how I wouldn't be able to conceive now barring I'm just infertile because my levels will come back unless I'm just so damn unlucky. The only other variables in the equation are my wife and the Adderall but in all my years I've found 1 study linking it to sperm issues.

Also this restart is and has always been temporary, I have the ability to restart my protocol tonight if needed. I've just felt bad this entire time that my medicine could be the culprit and despite all the studies, logically most doctors(especially doctors checking my wife) will always blame the test. So its an uphill battle always, so I get frustrated having to point to all these studies that I said screw it, I'll just stop temporarily

 

[FLguy123]

How many weeks are you out now including the restart?

If it helps I am about 10 weeks out from getting off T with no PCT and I feel pretty damn good overall surprisingly. However, I had been on androgel and injections for many years, did a clomid restart and got my sperm count back up but felt like shit, then was on Natesto for several months before going off cold turkey due to getting really sick and such a runny nose I couldn’t apply it.

I have still had on and off bouts of low energy and libido still isn’t on fire, but it’s way better than I expected to feel at this point and seems to improve still daily. Gains coming back in the gym, brain fog gone, joints were achy for a while but feel amazing now.

completely an opinion here, but any time I tried a restart while on injections I had a terrible time. I’m assuming with the natesto it doesn’t shut you down as much so the restart from that would be easier in theory. May be worth a go even to assist in an eventual PCT protocol so you’re not getting crushed by going from injections to natural so quickly. My insurance didn’t cover it but if you go to their website they have patient assistance and it’s like $150 a month.

 

[RobO89]

How many weeks are you out now including the restart?

If it helps I am about 10 weeks out from getting off T with no PCT and I feel pretty damn good overall surprisingly. However, I had been on androgel and injections for many years, did a clomid restart and got my sperm count back up but felt like shit, then was on Natesto for several months before going off cold turkey due to getting really sick and such a runny nose I couldn’t apply it.

I have still had on and off bouts of low energy and libido still isn’t on fire, but it’s way better than I expected to feel at this point and seems to improve still daily. Gains coming back in the gym, brain fog gone, joints were achy for a while but feel amazing now.

completely an opinion here, but any time I tried a restart while on injections I had a terrible time. I’m assuming with the natesto it doesn’t shut you down as much so the restart from that would be easier in theory. May be worth a go even to assist in an eventual PCT protocol so you’re not getting crushed by going from injections to natural so quickly. My insurance didn’t cover it but if you go to their website they have patient assistance and it’s like $150 a month.

It's been 2 two weeks after my last clomid pill, I didn't do the entire bottle I had a few left but the dry eyes were painful. I'm tempted as others have said to continue my hcg but in a bit higher dose to help ease the the transition. Basically finish the rest of the vial that's sitting in my fridge.

 

[Gladiator]

I couldn’t get my x pregnant when I was 38. I had sperm test and I was more fertile than a teenager my doctor said. My x was so pissed and turned out she didn’t produce eggs so she blamed me.
She finally fell pregnant after having to use a fertility clinic. It was the second protocol she used that worked.

I hope you are using a fertility clinic and making your partner get checked.

 

[rustylwb]

How many weeks are you out now including the restart?

If it helps I am about 10 weeks out from getting off T with no PCT and I feel pretty damn good overall surprisingly. However, I had been on androgel and injections for many years, did a clomid restart and got my sperm count back up but felt like shit, then was on Natesto for several months before going off cold turkey due to getting really sick and such a runny nose I couldn’t apply it.

I have still had on and off bouts of low energy and libido still isn’t on fire, but it’s way better than I expected to feel at this point and seems to improve still daily. Gains coming back in the gym, brain fog gone, joints were achy for a while but feel amazing now.

completely an opinion here, but any time I tried a restart while on injections I had a terrible time. I’m assuming with the natesto it doesn’t shut you down as much so the restart from that would be easier in theory. May be worth a go even to assist in an eventual PCT protocol so you’re not getting crushed by going from injections to natural so quickly. My insurance didn’t cover it but if you go to their website they have patient assistance and it’s like $150 a month.

 

[rustylwb]

If your buying Gel and paying $150 you can get it for $57.00 bucks with GoodRx a Krogers. FYI 60+ pumps

 

[Graham]

To answer your question OP your symptoms might never get “resolved” while your not on TRT. There was hopefully a reason you went on it in the first place. You just ride it out until your fertility issue is resolved and your wife is pregnant.

 

[RobO89]

To answer your question OP your symptoms might never get “resolved” while your not on TRT. There was hopefully a reason you went on it in the first place. You just ride it out until your fertility issue is resolved and your wife is pregnant.

Yes primary hypogonadism however as of this post I'm feeling pretty damn good the only thing I've had to do recently is take an anastrazole, it feels like my estrogen regulation is out of wack but that could just be in my head.

 

[RobO89]

I couldn’t get my x pregnant when I was 38. I had sperm test and I was more fertile than a teenager my doctor said. My x was so pissed and turned out she didn’t produce eggs so she blamed me.
She finally fell pregnant after having to use a fertility clinic. It was the second protocol she used that worked.

I hope you are using a fertility clinic and making your partner get checked.

Yeah but I've told her not to mention the trt. Last doc basically blamed it and said she was fine. She has a couple more tests to run on her as well. I'm through the worst of it, I feel much better considering my levels are probably 200 to 300 vs the 1300 total 30 free it was before lol. I'm going to give it a total of 3 months and check my sperm. Everyone here was right in that I probably should have done that first but I felt bad at possibly being the cause so I bit the bullet and removed that variable(trt) from equation.

 

[DS3]

Hopefully this is the right place for this, I recently finished a restart protocol from Defy (HCG 300iu x 14 days then clomid 12.5 x 4 weeks) and being my first restart I wanted to know if what I was experiencing was normal. My test protocol was(250mg test/smaller doses daily/week + 300iu HCG + .125mg Anastrazole as needed)

Symptoms:
Extremely tired, I can sleep for 10+ hours and still be ready to sleep more.
Aching arms and leg muscles, I feel drained
No energy(expected)
Bad ED(sort of expected, have a feeling my estrogen might be out of wack)

Now I completely understand going from a high test level to a low, my body is going to take time to adjust, do I just grin and bear it and wait it out? I have some labs planned to see if the body fired back up, but my fear is I have restarted and I am just going to feel like this because the body was use to 1200 ng/dl total, 39 free T and I am going to continually "feel" the bad when it comes to the low levels I undoubtedly now have.

The reason I did this was for fertility, wasn't working for us prior. So I stopped my testosterone temporarily as well as my Adderall script(a new study came out about medication induced pituitary failure and low sperm due to amphetamines) so we thought it logical to also stop this medicine as well, basically remove all the variables and give it a 6 months to a year and see where we end up.

Thanks for your time

Sounds like you are not ‘recovered’. I would bet that if you actually tested your levels, your TT would be <100 ng/dL.