T Propionate protocol

[t_spacemonkey]

Well only 8mg of straight Prop peaked me at 1200 TT !

since Tprop would quickly taper off question is how long after injection. TBH the blood levels are way overvalued by most in T community. most of the action happens at the receptor you can't measure that. i completely ignore all those numbers and go purely by how I feel. I feel the best on roughly 30mg Tprop daily

 

[t_spacemonkey]

Idk, I’ve heard just as many guys doing really well on EOD prop injections as I have on ED prop injections. And a decent amount of guys reporting that they felt better sexually, specifically libido wise, doing EOD prop injections, opposed to ED injections

interesting, maybe worth a try. that would mean I have to reduce the dose. currently at 30mg/daily, but anything over 35/40mg is too high most days.

 

[Gman86]

interesting, maybe worth a try. that would mean I have to reduce the dose. currently at 30mg/daily, but anything over 35/40mg is too high most days.

oh ur saying too much in one shot gives u issues? So even tho 60mg EOD would be the same exact total dosage per week, it would probably be too much all at once on ur injection days?

 

[t_spacemonkey]

oh ur saying too much in one shot gives u issues? So even tho 60mg EOD would be the same exact total dosage per week, it would probably be too much all at once on ur injection days?

definitely, again due to short half life. i think it spiked my e2 too high. i played around with an AI (not taking it normally) + higher dose, and did not get as much anxiety. however even 0.125 anastrazole tanks my libido. so I think i have to accept my upper limit of Tprop at 30-40mg range.

 

[Willyt]

since Tprop would quickly taper off question is how long after injection. TBH the blood levels are way overvalued by most in T community. most of the action happens at the receptor you can't measure that. i completely ignore all those numbers and go purely by how I feel. I feel the best on roughly 30mg Tprop daily

To each his own. 30mg prop daily would wreck me with side effects. Hell, 10mg had me wired well into the night

 

[t_spacemonkey]

To each his own. 30mg prop daily would wreck me with side effects. Hell, 10mg had me wired well into the night

I wonder how some guys run cycles of 500-2000mg T weekly. blows my mind. but yeah 30mg is ok for me. i feel energized, good libido, good workouts. at 10mg i would feel like i am on no T at all

 

[Jerajera]

I guess something ive come to conclusion on from this thread is doing test prop 3x per week would not be ideal since even with subq injections its almost fully out of the system by the next day.

I remember @Cataceous mentioning that half-life is positively correlated with injected dose to some degree.
In other words the half-life will be greater if you inject 50mg at once than if you inject 17mg.

Anecdotally some guys seem to do better on EoD or even 2x/week injection protocols on Prop than on daily injections, so trying a 3x/week wouldn't necessarily be completely insane

 

[grimcontango]

If anyone is interested, I replied to the other thread regarding Prop blends and my personal findings but just wanted to thank all the guys on this thread as the discussion has been very useful to me.

 

[Jerajera]

I've been feeling pretty good on 20mg/day Test C and 10mg/day Primo for E2 control, definitely way better than on Test C only. Water retention is gone, cognition and libido are better. E2 levels (sensitive) also dropped by 50% to 28pg/mL for pretty high Free T at 35ng/dL.

However I remembered recently how good I felt on 15mg/day IM Prop until my E2 got so high I started getting headaches with significant water retention.

For some reason for me Prop resulted in a terrible Free T to E2 ratio. My FT was 18ng/dL and E2 (sensitive) was 70pg/mL.

But my libido and erection quality were teenage levels and energy in the gym and in general was ridiculous. Problem was the negative side effects from sky high Estrogen, and also feeling completely manic and wired all the time.

But I didn't get the lethargy and cognitive decline into clinical retardation I get on Cypionate.

There are several research papers showing that shorter esters lead to significantly less shutdown of the HPTA, which is what I think leads to those positive outcomes on Prop as opposed to Cyp that a lot of users report.

However E2 is an issue when it's 3 times the range while my Free T is only half the range, at least for me. But I'm thinking maybe combining Prop with a small dose of DHT derivative to control E2 might be the best of both worlds, so I'm going to try from 10 to 20mg/day of Prop and a small dose of Primo, Masteron or Proviron to keep Estrogen from leaving the atmosphere.

One other thing i'm going to try is using Phenylprop, which has a slightly longer half-life than Prop and might lead to just slightly less unstable levels while still resulting in much less HPTA shutdown than longer esters.

I'll post my results in here

 

[Forty2]

I've been feeling pretty good on 20mg/day Test C and 10mg/day Primo for E2 control, definitely way better than on Test C only. Water retention is gone, cognition and libido are better. E2 levels (sensitive) also dropped by 50% to 28pg/mL for pretty high Free T at 35ng/dL.

However I remembered recently how good I felt on 15mg/day IM Prop until my E2 got so high I started getting headaches with significant water retention.

For some reason for me Prop resulted in a terrible Free T to E2 ratio. My FT was 18ng/dL and E2 (sensitive) was 70pg/mL.

But my libido and erection quality were teenage levels and energy in the gym and in general was ridiculous. Problem was the negative side effects from sky high Estrogen, and also feeling completely manic and wired all the time.

But I didn't get the lethargy and cognitive decline into clinical retardation I get on Cypionate.

There are several research papers showing that shorter esters lead to significantly less shutdown of the HPTA, which is what I think leads to those positive outcomes on Prop as opposed to Cyp that a lot of users report.

However E2 is an issue when it's 3 times the range while my Free T is only half the range, at least for me. But I'm thinking maybe combining Prop with a small dose of DHT derivative to control E2 might be the best of both worlds, so I'm going to try from 10 to 20mg/day of Prop and a small dose of Primo, Masteron or Proviron to keep Estrogen from leaving the atmosphere.
One other thing i'm going to try is using Phenylprop, which has a slightly longer half-life than Prop and might lead to just sightly the less unstable levels while still resulting in much less HPTA shutdown than longer esters.

I'll post my results in here

You would be just as suppressed from Prop as any other ester. Your sky high E2 is confirmation of that.
Why not try 7.5mg Test prop in the morning and some trans scrotal cream at night if you want more DHT? You will need to experiment with the cream to get the right dose to give you a good blood level of T in the morning. Just 7.5mg Prop in the morning without the cream will likely result in an insufficient morning T level. 10mg of Prop may be too high a dose, giving you supraphysiologic levels at some point in the day.

 

[SSHSSA74]

Hello there. What is your experience with T Propionate in terms of protocol, side effects, efficiency?
I am wondering what dosage to start with and when I can expect libido, mental state and erections to improve.
I would also like to know how to get off it if it does not work well.

Felt horrible

 

[Jerajera]

You would be just as suppressed from Prop as any other ester. Your sky high E2 is confirmation of that.

I'm not sure what you mean by that last part. There are actual studies showing less shutdown from Prop than from longer esters. My DHEA-S levels also come back closer to pre-TRT baseline on Prop vs on Cyp, which is significant.

I don't think sky high E2 is a measure of suppression, unless I misunderstand what you're saying.

Why not try 7.5mg Test prop in the morning and some trans scrotal cream at night if you want more DHT? You will need to experiment with the cream to get the right dose to give you a good blood level of T in the morning. Just 7.5mg Prop in the morning without the cream will likely result in an insufficient morning T level. 10mg of Prop may be too high a dose, giving you supraphysiologic levels at some point in the day.

This could be interesting, however I played with the cream in the past and never felt very good on it except initially. The main issues were that dosing and absorbption were inconsistent, and that it's hard to fine tune dosage because of the delivery system. I even bought miniature topiclick applicators to get 10mg/click instead of 50mg/click, but it was a mess and always looked like different amounts were coming out.

Also, on the standard dosage of 4 clicks/day (2AM/2PM) of 200mg total, my DHT ended up at 500 (can't remember the units, I think it's also ng/dL) on a range of 12-65.
Even on half that dose (100mg/day, 1 click AM, 1 click PM) my DHT ended up at 360ng/dL.

In comparison, a small dose on Masteron (50mg/week) even with Test Cyp greatly improved my mood and libido and with injections that protocol is infinitely fine tunable for all practical purposes, and dosage and absorbption consistency are never a problem.

If I could get my hands on some injectable bio-identical DHT I'd certainly give it a try, but I also think some of the DHT derivatives have a greater ability to block E2 at the receptor level (Masteron), or to reduce it systemically (Primo) without having to use ridiculous amounts.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I'm not sure what you mean by that last part. There are actual studies showing less shutdown from Prop than from longer esters. My DHEA-S levels also come back closer to pre-TRT baseline on Prop vs on Cyp, which is significant.

I don't think DHEA-S is a reliable marker for HPTA activity. Is it unaffected by TRT in many men, and relates more to adrenal function. If you wanted to prove that propionate was less suppressive, a trough LH value in the detectable range would be more convincing. I tend to agree with Forty that your HPTA won't be doing much in the face of a high E2 value.

 

[Jerajera]

I don't think DHEA-S is a reliable marker for HPTA activity. Is it unaffected by TRT in many men, and relates more to adrenal function. If you wanted to prove that propionate was less suppressive, a trough LH value in the detectable range would be more convincing.

For me DHEA-S dropped by 60% after starting TRT, from 200 to 80 (forget the units). On Prop it goes back up to 150. On the cream it goes back up to 190.
I'm talking very consistent numbers over dozens of blood tests in total.

But I agree an LH measurement would be a better indicator. Still, my DHEA-S coming back from the gutter to a very significant degree is indication of adrenal recovery which is non trivial.

I tend to agree with Forty that your HPTA won't be doing much in the face of a high E2 value.

I'm guessing you're referring to Estrogen being the main trigger for the negative feedback loop on the pituitary to stop production of endogenous T.

That's very possible and would be taken care of by the DHT derivative, along with all the other negative side effects from high E2.

 

[madman]

I've been feeling pretty good on 20mg/day Test C and 10mg/day Primo for E2 control, definitely way better than on Test C only. Water retention is gone, cognition and libido are better. E2 levels (sensitive) also dropped by 50% to 28pg/mL for pretty high Free T at 35ng/dL.

However I remembered recently how good I felt on 15mg/day IM Prop until my E2 got so high I started getting headaches with significant water retention.

For some reason for me Prop resulted in a terrible Free T to E2 ratio. My FT was 18ng/dL and E2 (sensitive) was 70pg/mL.

But my libido and erection quality were teenage levels and energy in the gym and in general was ridiculous. Problem was the negative side effects from sky high Estrogen, and also feeling completely manic and wired all the time.

But I didn't get the lethargy and cognitive decline into clinical retardation I get on Cypionate.

There are several research papers showing that shorter esters lead to significantly less shutdown of the HPTA, which is what I think leads to those positive outcomes on Prop as opposed to Cyp that a lot of users report.

However E2 is an issue when it's 3 times the range while my Free T is only half the range, at least for me. But I'm thinking maybe combining Prop with a small dose of DHT derivative to control E2 might be the best of both worlds, so I'm going to try from 10 to 20mg/day of Prop and a small dose of Primo, Masteron or Proviron to keep Estrogen from leaving the atmosphere.

One other thing i'm going to try is using Phenylprop, which has a slightly longer half-life than Prop and might lead to just slightly less unstable levels while still resulting in much less HPTA shutdown than longer esters.

I'll post my results in here

Wishful thinking here!

Nateso T gel is the only formulation that will cause the least suppression of the hpta due to the PK/dosing protocol.

Natesto is meant to/needs to be applied intranasally in order to reap the benefits of the PK.

In and out of your system quickly due to the half-life of unesterified T.

Dosed 2-3 times daily which results in a short-lived peak with long trough times between doses.

*The key point here is a short-lived peak with long trough times between doses.

The main reason one would choose Natesto over any other form of exogenous T is that it will cause the least suppression of the hpta out of all the T formulations.

Minimal testicular shrinkage and maintaining fertility without having to add in an ancillary like hCG to boot.

Minimal impact when it comes to side effects (cosmetic/blood markers), especially elevated hematocrit.

Better yet look up the PK/half-life TP vs oral TU vs Natesto!

Oral TU is dosed twice-daily (2 peaks/troughs).

There is still a strong suppression of the hpta.

When using daily short-acting TP the T levels achieved peak vs trough let alone the time period over those 24 hrs T levels are elevated whether mid-range/high/absurdly high will still result in a strong suppression of the hpta.

Top it off there are many injecting daily TP hitting very high/absurdly high peaks let alone healthy troughs.

NATESTO/Tlando

Hi all, Does anyone here know where I can get Natesto, that is my protocol for 1 year 1/2 -3x daily pharmacy got a letter from McKesson no longer available commercially? Now seriously considering Tlando is there anyone currently on that medication and could you please tell me the pro's and...

www.excelmale.com

Natesto lost effects quickly? nasal test

eh guys, tried Natesto I didn't squeeze the 10 doses out as they say to do as appeared to come out just fine first squeeze.. now, I only do 1 dose a day which was 100% all good as I felt energy confidence sex was better and lasted into the evening and even got better sleep... in fact even 1...

www.excelmale.com

 

[madman]

I've been feeling pretty good on 20mg/day Test C and 10mg/day Primo for E2 control, definitely way better than on Test C only. Water retention is gone, cognition and libido are better. E2 levels (sensitive) also dropped by 50% to 28pg/mL for pretty high Free T at 35ng/dL.

However I remembered recently how good I felt on 15mg/day IM Prop until my E2 got so high I started getting headaches with significant water retention.

For some reason for me Prop resulted in a terrible Free T to E2 ratio. My FT was 18ng/dL and E2 (sensitive) was 70pg/mL.

But my libido and erection quality were teenage levels and energy in the gym and in general was ridiculous. Problem was the negative side effects from sky high Estrogen, and also feeling completely manic and wired all the time.

But I didn't get the lethargy and cognitive decline into clinical retardation I get on Cypionate.

There are several research papers showing that shorter esters lead to significantly less shutdown of the HPTA, which is what I think leads to those positive outcomes on Prop as opposed to Cyp that a lot of users report.

However E2 is an issue when it's 3 times the range while my Free T is only half the range, at least for me. But I'm thinking maybe combining Prop with a small dose of DHT derivative to control E2 might be the best of both worlds, so I'm going to try from 10 to 20mg/day of Prop and a small dose of Primo, Masteron or Proviron to keep Estrogen from leaving the atmosphere.

One other thing i'm going to try is using Phenylprop, which has a slightly longer half-life than Prop and might lead to just slightly less unstable levels while still resulting in much less HPTA shutdown than longer esters.

I'll post my results in here

There are even some of those clueless ones on this forum let alone those so called men's health forums injecting a whopping (28-30 mg) TP daily (196-210 mg/week) LMFAO!

 

[Jerajera]

There are even some of those clueless ones on this forum let alone those so called men's health forums injecting a whopping (28-30 mg) TP daily (196-210 mg/week) LMFAO!

What do you think about Test base in oil or water injected several times/day then in terms of HPTA preservation?

 

[madman]

What do you think about Test base in oil or water injected several times/day then in terms of HPTA preservation?

Look over this thread!

Anyone tried testosterone base (no ester)?

Speaking about testosterone no ester in oil, not testosterone suspension which is water based. I've only seen a few users here post about it, but they all mentioned they felt better on it compared to estered testosterone. Apparently you can get by injecting it once daily, due to the oil...

www.excelmale.com