Transdermal progesterone use in men

[sammmy]

I just got a trans-dermal (micronized) progesterone cream to try it to help me fall asleep at night.

I am interested to hear male experiences about it, with or without TRT. How did it affect your sleep, libido, erection, orgasm, and testosterone levels if you measured those?

The purported benefits for males is that it is converted to testosterone, improves libido, erection, sleep, shrinks prostate, blocks excessive estrogen but all that sounds like fairy tales to me. Also, it supposedly increases body temperature which is good in the Winter.

I wonder if it really "converts to testosterone", is it capable of causing a shutdown if one is not on TRT?

Women use it to alleviate menopause symptoms, some claim they lost fat on it.

 

[Cataceous]

I have been concerned about the apparent suppression of endogenous progesterone by TRT, which led me to try supplementation. I did use a transdermal product at first. It was simply progesterone in oil. I applied it to the scrotum nightly, and lab work showed good absorption. Transient effects after starting included more pronounced nocturnal erections and a boost to libido. Long-term effects include improved mood and sleep. I now simply include 600 mcg in my nighttime injections. This puts my serum level the following morning into mid-range of LabCorp's test. I feel and sleep even better at higher doses, but I don't want to push my luck. As with most things, negative associations arise at higher levels. I don't want to be the one exploring possible causality.

 

[Jon H]

I've tried transdermal progesterone multiple times, but the only thing it's does for me is make me more prone to ED. It's never had any positive effect that's noticeable. I might try it again with a low-dose 5mg per night and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Jon H]

I have been concerned about the apparent suppression of endogenous progesterone by TRT, which led me to try supplementation. I did use a transdermal product at first. It was simply progesterone in oil. I applied it to the scrotum nightly, and lab work showed good absorption. Transient effects after starting included more pronounced nocturnal erections and a boost to libido. Long-term effects include improved mood and sleep. I now simply include 600 mcg in my nighttime injections. This puts my serum level the following morning into mid-range of LabCorp's test. I feel and sleep even better at higher doses, but I don't want to push my luck. As with most things, negative associations arise at higher levels. I don't want to be the one exploring possible causality.

Cataceous - What form of progesterone do you use to inject (brand, etc.)? Injections always seems to be the best delivery method for me. It would be interesting to see if doing it that way would give me the benefits of progesterone without negative side effects.

 

[Cataceous]

Cataceous - What form of progesterone do you use to inject (brand, etc.)? Injections always seems to be the best delivery method for me. It would be interesting to see if doing it that way would give me the benefits of progesterone without negative side effects.

Currently using the Susten brand from AllDayChemist, greatly diluted.

Have you verified that you're starting from a low level?

 

[JoeMatts]

I had/have very severe anxiety on trt, manifesting as a chronically pounding heart, racing thoughts, regular adrenaline surges and daily panic attacks — none of which were present pre-trt; all of which go away when I come off testosterone.

One thing that always correlated with the above is my serum progesterone. On trt, my progesterone immediately drops to undetectable levels, whereas pre-trt and whenever I've taken time off testosterone, my progesterone always returns back to the middle of the reference range. Something about exogenous testosterone and/or HPTA shutdown causes extreme suppression of my adrenals, which I used to believe was caused by the lack of LH - Crisler's 'backfilling the pathways' theory - but high-dose hcg does nothing to remedy it.

Based on the above, I decided to try sublingual progesterone @ 3mg before bed (one drop of progest-e). The anti-anxiety effects were extremely pronounced and I immediately felt calmer, which I believe can be attributed to the downstream conversion of progesterone to allopregnenolone, as the latter is a potent GABA-A agonist. However, after a week of use, I started to notice the development of spider veins all over my body, and my larger veins on my arms, legs and even genitals started to swell, expand, turn blue and twist, as if they were becoming varicose. I immediately ceased use of progesterone, and although the development of the veins stopped, the changes that were induced did not reverse. I have repeated this process multiple times now, with each attempt producing the same result: initiation of progesterone causes the veins to worsen; cessation of progesterone halts the progression, but does not reverse the changes.

There are papers which implicate progesterone in the development of varicose veins, but the same can be said for most hormones, including estrogen, testosterone, aldosterone and cortisol — unfortunately, there is no general consensus on what exactly causes them.

I wish I could use progesterone because I benefited greatly from it, but apart from the obvious aesthetic issue, I fear the development of severe venous insufficiency if I were to continue supplementation. FWIW, pregnenolone also causes the same issue.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Based on the above, I decided to try sublingual progesterone @ 3mg before bed (one drop of progest-e). T

What product do you use and where did you get it? Thanks

We are having an interesting discussion here:

Could the ratio of progesterone to estradiol affect water retention in men on TRT?

I've been doing reading on water retention on TRT and I'd like to discuss a hypothetical I haven't seen floated: that the ratio of progesterone to estradiol could play a role. This is a good post by Nelson: "Water Retention Caused by Testosterone May Have Nothing to Do with Estradiol". The...

www.excelmale.com

 

[JoeMatts]

What product do you use and where did you get it? Thanks

We are having an interesting discussion here:

Could the ratio of progesterone to estradiol affect water retention in men on TRT?

I've been doing reading on water retention on TRT and I'd like to discuss a hypothetical I haven't seen floated: that the ratio of progesterone to estradiol could play a role. This is a good post by Nelson: "Water Retention Caused by Testosterone May Have Nothing to Do with Estradiol". The...

www.excelmale.com

I use progest-e as the ingredients are nothing more than bio-identical progesterone suspended in vitamin e. I've had issues in the past with certain creams containing unpleasant herbs that aren't disclosed on the label (for example, now foods progesterone cream also contains saw palmetto), so I value the lack of ingredients.

As far as where to get it: long natural health are an official supplier of kenogen, the manufacturer; any website that stocks it on google should be fine though.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Thanks.

I used transdermal progesterone for 4 days (nights) but freaked out when I started seeing hair on my hands while shampooing. Not sure if it was related but I stopped.

 

[JoeMatts]

Thanks.

I used transdermal progesterone for 4 days (nights) but freaked out when I started seeing hair on my hands while shampooing. Not sure if it was related but I stopped.

That's a strange one. I'd have expected the opposite since it's an antagonist of the AR and a potent inhibitor of testosterone -> dht via 5ar — there's even a few threads floating around on hairloss forums where people have used it to regrow hair.

Did you notice any positives in terms of anxiety reduction / relaxation? What dose did you use? Thanks.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I am embarrassed to say but I used half a packet of this product every night

Amazon.com

 

[Cataceous]

I am embarrassed to say but I used half a packet of this product every night

Amazon.com

That's only 10 mg of progesterone. If absorption is around 10% then it's a pretty reasonable dose if you're starting from a low level.

I've used the Progestelle brand, which is only progesterone and coconut oil.

 

[sammmy]

It would be nice if there is progesterone in alcohol solution without the oiliness - could be applied directly on scalp and absorb there, helping grow hair at the same time.

Long time ago when I was concerned about hair loss, a medical nurse told me to get progesterone ampules and apply on scalp.

 

[JoeMatts]

It would be nice if there is progesterone in alcohol solution without the oiliness - could be applied directly on scalp and absorb there, helping grow hair at the same time.

Long time ago when I was concerned about hair loss, a medical nurse told me to get progesterone ampules and apply on scalp.

Progesterone dissolved in alcohol.

I've bought their cortinon before (progesterone and dhea dissolved in tocopherol) with no issue. Everything is advertised as 'for lab research', but that's solely to get around having to be a registered pharmacy since they're selling restricted hormones. I also used their androsterone as a bio-identical aromatse inhibitor towards the end of my time on trt, but even 1mg would reduce my serum estradiol too much - hard to say what was actually happening in the tissue.

The owner is an independent medical research - I speak to him over email occasionally when I want his opinion on a study. You can find his blog here.

Alternatively, you can apply some olive oil with a progesterone dissolved in vitamin e as it significantly increases absorption.

 

[sammmy]

Oily solutions (SFA esters) are not feasible for everyday application on scalp, unless you are bald and woul like to "shine like a star".

Progesterone solubility in ethanol is about 1%, which should be sufficient for topical hair growth and for helping with sleep (1 gram of solution will be 10mg progesterone, of which about 1mg will be absorbed transdermally).

I've read in a review that progesterone solubility and bioavailability is hugely increased by complexing with methylated cyclodextrin which is highly hydrophilic.

Methyl-beta-cyclodextrin can be found online but is severely overpriced. The similar 2-Hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin can be found on ebay and Amazon about 10 times cheaper. I still don't know what is meant by 'complexing' but a wild guess is that just mixing a water solution of the cyclodextrin with progesterone and stirring with a mixer should make the molecules form complexes with each other.

 

[sammmy]

After 5 nights of application, I am surprised to say that transdermal progesterone actually works for falling asleep but not for prolonging the duration of sleep. Also, it tends to decrease my daily energy/endurance, does NOT make me less depressed, does NOT make my body feel warmer, and may have a negative impact on orgasm. Read below ...

I got from Amazon the Progesto-Life cream (Advanced Formula by Smoky Mountain Nutrition). The cream is a simple moisturizing base without additional herbs and contains 500mg of micronized Progesterone per ounce = 500mg/28.35g = 17.6mg progesterone per gram of cream.

I applied between 1g (~ 18mg progesterone) and 0.6g (~ 10mg Progesterone) of cream on my neck (thin skin, vascular, close to brain) before bed. Without progesterone, my current HIV drug regimen makes it completely impossible to fall asleep - I just lay there napping. After I apply the progesterone cream, I start yawning and am able to fall asleep and dream. The sleep remains short though - about 6 hours, so progesterone did not correct for that. I've read online that the progesterone metabolites 5alha- and 5beta-pregnanolone bind to GABAa receptor and exert hypnotic effects. One morning I applied a second dose of the cream around 6am but it did not help me fall asleep, just made me groggy during the day. Apparently, the low transdermal dose ENHANCES the natural body cycle of falling asleep, cannot induce sleep by itself at any time of the day. I've read online that a large intravenous dose can induce sleep but we are not in that regimen at all.

There were negative side effects. On the next day after the dose, I feel an obvious reduction in energy, strength, and endurance for working out and prolonged walking. There are claims online that progesterone actually suppresses adrenaline and decreases calcium uptake in smooth muscles (in blood vessels), possibly in skeletal muscles too, which would explain the energy/strength reduction.

It does make me more mellow (non reactive) probably again by reduction of adrenaline. This could be good for someone in a high anxiety/stress state but definitely does not make me feel "less depressed" or "full of energy". Also, my body does not feel warmer on those doses.

Sexually, I do not feel a rise in libido, erection seems the same, and I think it impairs negatively orgasm (again by reducing excitory adrenaline).

In summary, progesterone at those minimal transdermal doses in males mainly helps fall sleep at night and decreases energy/endurance on the next day. This qualifies it as a mild DEPRESSANT on the central nervous system, similar to diphenhydramine or alcohol.

 

[sammmy]

In the future, I will try lower doses, and will start applying the cream probably on my face or wrists, so I can easily wash it off in the morning and halt the absorption. I hope that will decrease the negative side effect of reduced energy during the day.

Applying on neck works but the doses pile on top of each other and progesterone keeps absorbing even during the day, until I take a shower and wash off all accumulated doses.