Testosterone injections vs Clomid for secondary sexual characteristics, need help!

[als1741]

Hi everyone, I'm 32 years old and have secondary hypogonadism (was diagnosed at 25 years old). I've been on clomid for around 7 years now that was prescribed by my urologist. My main question is whether testosterone injections are more effective than clomid for secondary sexual characteristics (body hair, facial hair, mature/masculine looking face)? I'm pretty sure I've always had much lower levels of testosterone than guys my age. I went through puberty much later than other guys my age, and to be honest, I didn't feel like I completely finished puberty. Before I got on clomid, I looked like I was 15 or 16 years old, when I was actually 25. Now, at 32, I look like I'm 22 or 23 years old. This has been a huge problem in my life, especially when it comes to dating and women, as well as people just treating me like I'm some immature kid with no life experience. And before someone says that looking really young for your age is a gift, it's definitely not. It's actually terrible, especially when you are male trying to attract females anywhere close to your age. It might be great when I'm 50 or 60, but it has made my life a living hell for the past two decades.

Anyway, before I started clomid I had all the typical symptoms of low testosterone (levels turned out to be around 300 ng/dl). Clomid initially raised my total testosterone levels to around 800-900 ng/dl. The first year or two after starting clomid I felt much better and most of my symptoms went away. I also started to grow facial hair for the first time ever, and my face became slightly (emphasis on slightly) more mature. But the last five years or so, I haven't noticed any changes in my appearance at all. Previous symptoms have started to resurface as well, despite my total testosterone being decent. However, just recently I switched urologists due to moving states, and had my blood tested, which included more than just total testosterone and E2.

My most recent blood labs:

Total testosterone was in the middle of the normal reference range
Free testosterone was near the lower end of normal
Free testosterone percentage was below normal (1.45%)
SHBG was near the higher end of normal
E2 was normal

I've read that clomid can raise SHBG and lower free testosterone and IGF-1. I do want to have kids someday, but I am strongly considering going on TRT with HCG, instead of clomid. In my opinion, and this is completely anecdotal, I believe that since clomid has an estrogenic makeup, that it does not have the same effects as doing normal testosterone injections would. I feel like clomid isn't as effective as TRT is with regards to developing secondary sexual characteristics. It also seems like there isn't enough known about the side effects of long-term clomid use. Has anyone on here used both of these treatments before and noticed any difference in physical side effects? Or has anyone had the experience of TRT making their face more mature after starting treatment? I feel like my situation is somewhat unique, so I've had a really difficult time finding anything on the internet related to this. Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated!

I'm going to an endocrinologist next week to figure out what is the root cause of my problems, since my previous urologist never really seemed too concerned about what is causing my low testosterone. Thanks

 

[Mountain Man]

Having a baby face wouldn’t be as bad if you work out and get a little jacked. See an MD, maybe HCG or something, but also get in the gym and do some lifting. Do a program based on Squats, bench, and deadlift. If you put on some mass, baby face will be hardly noticeable.

 

[als1741]

Having a baby face wouldn’t be as bad if you work out and get a little jacked. See an MD, maybe HCG or something, but also get in the gym and do some lifting. Do a program based on Squats, bench, and deadlift. If you put on some mass, baby face will be hardly noticeable.

Thanks for the reply. I've lifted weights continuously since I was 16 years old. I have a decent amount of muscle, but it really doesn't seem to help. I've seen doctors before, and have been diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism. I think I had this since puberty. It's hard to explain, but it's not exactly the same as just having a babyface like Leonardo DiCaprio has or something. Thanks for the reply man.

 

[S1W]

I do not have any experience with clomid - since you have 7 years of experience there I would certainly defer to you in that area.

However, I can that say that after almost a year on TRT that my face does not appear more masculine or older, etc. Additionally, other secondary characteristics like becoming more hairy or deepening voice have not changed either. I've always been able to grow a thick beard - no change there. Very sparse chest/body hair - no change there either. No changes in voice, etc.

Of note - there are timelines that you can find out there of likely onset of TRT benefits. Unfortunately, the clock starts ticking only once you've dialed in to a good protocol and become consistent with it - the clock doesn't start the day you start TRT. Since of course I was not dialed in from Day 1, there is a chance that additional changes may be in my future, but I doubt I'll be running around with a hairy chest looking like Teen Wolf. I think a lot of those things come down to genetics.

 

[als1741]

T

I do not have any experience with clomid - since you have 7 years of experience there I would certainly defer to you in that area.

However, I can that say that after almost a year on TRT that my face does not appear more masculine or older, etc. Additionally, other secondary characteristics like becoming more hairy or deepening voice have not changed either. I've always been able to grow a thick beard - no change there. Very sparse chest/body hair - no change there either. No changes in voice, etc.

Of note - there are timelines that you can find out there of likely onset of TRT benefits. Unfortunately, the clock starts ticking only once you've dialed in to a good protocol and become consistent with it - the clock doesn't start the day you start TRT. Since of course I was not dialed in from Day 1, there is a chance that additional changes may be in my future, but I doubt I'll be running around with a hairy chest looking like Teen Wolf. I think a lot of those things come down to genetics.

Thanks for the reply. I'm just curious, did you have the same situation as me, as far looking super young for your age? Did you have a normal puberty? I'm thinking those changes may occur only in men that haven't had an adequate amount of testosterone to achieve their peak of maturity as a man.

 

[madman]

Thanks for the reply. I've lifted weights continuously since I was 16 years old. I have a decent amount of muscle, but it really doesn't seem to help. I've seen doctors before, and have been diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism. I think I had this since puberty. It's hard to explain, but it's not exactly the same as just having a babyface like Leonardo DiCaprio has or something. Thanks for the reply man.

It is called genetics and no amount of testosterone is going to change your facial features.....sure one will notice increased hair growth (facial/body) but regarding beard growth as in distribution and density it is purely genetics and if it is not in your genes to have a full thick beard or even just a beard than testosterone will not make it happen.

If anything the main thing one will notice is the speed at which hair grows.....may need to shave more often, patches of stray dark body hairs common on the upper back, shoulders, chest, lats and if you are naturally a genetically hairy beast than you may end up being as hairy as George The Animal Steel (WWF)!

On the downside if you are genetically prone to MPB (male pattern baldness) than unfortunately testosterone will accelerate that.

Be thankful you have a baby face as you will always look younger for your age.....cherish what you were given as each of us are unique!

 

[als1741]

It is called genetics and no amount of testosterone is going to change your facial features.....sure one will notice increased hair growth (facial/body) but regarding beard growth as in distribution and density it is purely genetics and if it is not in your genes to have a full thick beard or even just a beard than testosterone will not make it happen.

If anything the main thing one will notice is the speed at which hair grows.....may need to shave more often, patches of stray dark body hairs common on the upper back, shoulders, chest, lats and if you are naturally a genetically hairy beast than you may end up being as hairy as George The Animal Steel (WWF)!

On the downside if you are genetically prone to MPB (male pattern baldness) than unfortunately testosterone will accelerate that.

Be thankful you have a baby face as you will always look younger for your age.....cherish what you were given as each of us are unique!

So what you are saying is that if someone who had low testosterone through their teens and 20s (which is the scenario I'm talking about) and then suddenly gets on TRT, that it won't have any effect on facial appearance? I can tell you from firsthand experience, if this it what you are saying, you are wrong. The first two years I was on clomid my face did change to a degree. I can now grow a decent looking beard, which before I had no facial hair. The muscles and fat distribution in my face changed. Just look at this guy who has a similar problem as me:

Just starting TRT

2 years on TRT

This guy's face aged significantly in just two year (he was 29 in the first video). You can't tell me that his changes aren't from TRT.

For whatever reason, after around a year or two on clomid, my face stopped making progress with regards to maturing. I also have had my low T symptoms resurface, despite my total testosterone being in normal range. My question is does clomid and TRT have different effects on this sort of thing? I'm guessing that it does since clomid is essentially an estrogen.

I'm not trying to be rude, but you have no idea how much it sucks to look significantly younger than your age. I've felt out of place with my peers for decades because of this. The majority of women don't want to date guys that look 10 years younger than them. This is a fact. I've gone through years of depression from this, and it drives me crazy when someone tells me I should be thankful for something that has caused so many problems in my life. It might be beneficial when I'm in my 50s, but there has been no advantage to looking that young thus far.

 

[madman]

So what you are saying is that if someone had low testosterone through their teens and 20s (which is the scenario I'm talking about) and then suddenly gets on TRT, that it won't have any effect on facial appearance? I can tell you from firsthand experience, if this it what you are saying, you are wrong. The first two years I was on clomid my face did change to a degree. I can now grow a decent looking beard, which before I had no facial hair. The muscles and fat distribution in my face changed. Just look at this guy who has a similar problem as me:

Just starting TRT

2 years on TRT

For whatever reason, after around a year or two on clomid, my face stopped making progress with regards to maturing. My question is does clomid and TRT have different effects on this sort of thing? I'm guessing that it does since clomid is essentially an estrogen.

I'm not trying to be rude, but you have no idea how much it sucks to look significantly younger than your age. I've felt out of place with my peers for decades because of this. The majority of women don't want to date guys that look 10 years younger than them. This is a fact. I've gone through years of depression from this, and it drives me crazy when someone tells me I should be thankful for something that has caused so many problems in my life. It might be beneficial when I'm in my 50s, but there has been no advantage to looking that young thus far.

If one was lacking androgens through puberty and puberty was delayed than of course adding testosterone is going to contribute to male secondary sexual characteristics but do understand that regardless of having healthy testosterone levels whether one can even grow a beard.....let alone a full beard.....facial hair (density/distribution) comes down to ones genetics!

Having a strong jaw, strong brow,higher cheekbones comes down to your genetics!

 

[als1741]

If one was lacking androgens through puberty and puberty was delayed than of course adding testosterone is going to contribute to male secondary sexual characteristics but do understand that regardless of having healthy testosterone levels whether one can even grow a beard.....let alone a full beard.....facial hair (density/distribution) comes down to ones genetics!

I agree with that, but that was not point of my post. I'm asking if anyone, with a similar problem as me, has noticed differences is physical side effects from using clomid monotherapy vs TRT. I realize that not many people have gone through this, but I figured this would be a good place to ask.

 

[S1W]

T

Thanks for the reply. I'm just curious, did you have the same situation as me, as far looking super young for your age? Did you have a normal puberty? I'm thinking those changes may occur only in men that haven't had an adequate amount of testosterone to achieve their peak of maturity as a man.

Hard to say to what extent...I would say that I had a mostly normal puberty but perhaps a bit delayed. And yes most would say that I look young for my age.

What the guys upstream have said though is true - that matters less and less with each passing year. Now at 40, I have friends I went to high school with that could pass for 50+. I, on the other hand, could pass for 30+. I'd prefer to remain on the younger/healthier side of that divide. I know you're feeling your struggles now and the future may not be any solace at the moment...but things do get better. Be confident and be yourself. Women will notice that, too.

After 7 years on Clomid you likely now know what it does/does not do for you. Properly administered TRT has been very therapeutic to many of us here. However, as both Madman and I have now mentioned, many secondary sexual characteristics are genetic and TRT is unlikely to dramatically change your appearance.

 

[Zibernet]

Hi everyone, I'm 32 years old and have secondary hypogonadism (was diagnosed at 25 years old). I've been on clomid for around 7 years now that was prescribed by my urologist. My main question is whether testosterone injections are more effective than clomid for secondary sexual characteristics (body hair, facial hair, mature/masculine looking face)? I'm pretty sure I've always had much lower levels of testosterone than guys my age. I went through puberty much later than other guys my age, and to be honest, I didn't feel like I completely finished puberty. Before I got on clomid, I looked like I was 15 or 16 years old, when I was actually 25. Now, at 32, I look like I'm 22 or 23 years old. This has been a huge problem in my life, especially when it comes to dating and women, as well as people just treating me like I'm some immature kid with no life experience. And before someone says that looking really young for your age is a gift, it's definitely not. It's actually terrible, especially when you are male trying to attract females anywhere close to your age. It might be great when I'm 50 or 60, but it has made my life a living hell for the past two decades.

Anyway, before I started clomid I had all the typical symptoms of low testosterone (levels turned out to be around 300 ng/dl). Clomid initially raised my total testosterone levels to around 800-900 ng/dl. The first year or two after starting clomid I felt much better and most of my symptoms went away. I also started to grow facial hair for the first time ever, and my face became slightly (emphasis on slightly) more mature. But the last five years or so, I haven't noticed any changes in my appearance at all. Previous symptoms have started to resurface as well, despite my total testosterone being decent. However, just recently I switched urologists due to moving states, and had my blood tested, which included more than just total testosterone and E2.

My most recent blood labs:

Total testosterone was in the middle of the normal reference range
Free testosterone was near the lower end of normal
Free testosterone percentage was below normal (1.45%)
SHBG was near the higher end of normal
E2 was normal

I've read that clomid can raise SHBG and lower free testosterone and IGF-1. I do want to have kids someday, but I am strongly considering going on TRT with HCG, instead of clomid. In my opinion, and this is completely anecdotal, I believe that since clomid has an estrogenic makeup, that it does not have the same effects as doing normal testosterone injections would. I feel like clomid isn't as effective as TRT is with regards to developing secondary sexual characteristics. It also seems like there isn't enough known about the side effects of long-term clomid use. Has anyone on here used both of these treatments before and noticed any difference in physical side effects? Or has anyone had the experience of TRT making their face more mature after starting treatment? I feel like my situation is somewhat unique, so I've had a really difficult time finding anything on the internet related to this. Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated!

I'm going to an endocrinologist next week to figure out what is the root cause of my problems, since my previous urologist never really seemed too concerned about what is causing my low testosterone. Thanks

Any update after all this time?

 

[Ricky V]

Yeah my endo put me on Trt but her Urologist friend literally made her rethink life and wanted me on clomid as trt like yesterday… Urologist do not like testosterone but remember that Urologist are good at surgical procedures but aren’t actually familiarized with fisiology to an extend. For me I have doctor parents and grandparents and myself in second year of med school. I have worked out pretty heavily past few years 3-4. Im 24 and my free t and total was low 250-290ish. I dabbled with Tren and anavar at low dose (150~) when i was like 20-21ish but around 1 or 2 weeks in I cut it due to advice from someone I trusted. Needless to say I did a subpar pct but 2-3 years later i took T exams every 3 months for about a year until I decided to take the Trt route and after 9 months discontinue do a on point to the nines PCT and see where I land. Currently 5 months on Trt and bro I blew up, I did start very lean, ab veins and everything now im bulked up and on 125mg / week + 400Ui hcg 2x week and I’m doing dips with 90lbs benching 240 ish for hypertrophy reps , etc… i blew up. But, I plan on sticking to the plan. Also circling back, my endo wanted me on clomid, not happening. SARMs do not have enough research to be administered long term, and blocking androgen receptors can’t be logical, not to mention the serious side effects that come with, all of this just because it probably provides some fertility safety net… well I’m currently trying to see if my balls come full circle after I come off and post PCT and fertility is good. I was very fertile before so losing that after would suck, but going blind sucks too (retina damage thru clomid). Anyways My experience hopefully you can gather something out of this, as far as physical features, my physique is probably top 1% people my age and haven’t started cutting, a lot of it is genetics aswell. Facial hair maybe grows back a bit quicker, wouldn’t say crazy difference. Acne can be easier to trigger not bad though, again its genetics. Libido is up up and actually I can focus better and longer with studies im pretty certain. But hard training can cause brain fog and lower that so it’s a trick balancing everything the most efficient way. Ask me anything, and/or advices, tips, info is welcomed and appreciated.