Does anyone know the percentage of actual testosterone that's in each ester? I'm having a hard time finding any conclusive numbers. I'm switching over to propionate, from cypionate, and would just like to know how to do the conversion. I can figure that part out once I have the percentages of testosterone in each ester. Thanks.
Testosterone esters
- Thread starter Gman86
- Start date
Sean Mosher
Member
CoastWatcher posted that in the last thread we had where we talked about Prop I believe.
antelopers
Active Member
Per 100mg:
Testosterone Base: 100mg
Testosterone Acetate: 83mg
Testosterone Propionate : 80mg
Testosterone Isocaproate: 72mg
Testosterone Enanthate : 70mg
Testosterone Cypionate : 69mg
Testosterone Phenylpropionate: 66mg
Testosterone Decanoate: 62mg
Testosterone Undecanoate: 61mg
This is commonly posted around the interwebs, not sure about accuracy.
Testosterone Base: 100mg
Testosterone Acetate: 83mg
Testosterone Propionate : 80mg
Testosterone Isocaproate: 72mg
Testosterone Enanthate : 70mg
Testosterone Cypionate : 69mg
Testosterone Phenylpropionate: 66mg
Testosterone Decanoate: 62mg
Testosterone Undecanoate: 61mg
This is commonly posted around the interwebs, not sure about accuracy.
Thank you! Just what I was looking for. Sean Mosher private messaged me a link on Defy’s website about each ester of testosterone as well. Here’s that link.
Defy Medical Centers
antelopers
Active Member
Interested to hear how your switch to propionate goes.
Me too! Lol. I’ll definitely make a thread once I start noticing any differences, good or bad.
antelopers
Active Member
I didn't have a great experience with it, but I also discovered I had a thyroid issue right around the same time, and that some of what I thought were high e2 symptoms could easily have been hypothyroid symptoms. I am definitely considering revisiting it, especially if your switch makes you feel better.
madman
Super Moderator
ANABOLICS 10ed by Llewellyn
Esters and Injectable Compounds
You may notice that many injectable steroids will list long chemical names like testosterone cypionate and testosterone enanthate, instead of just testosterone. In these cases, the cypionate and enanthate are esters (carboxylic acids) that have been attached to the 17-beta hydroxyl group of the testosterone molecule, which increase the active life span of the steroid preparation. Such alterations will reduce the steroid's level of water solubility, and increase its oil solubility. Once an esterified compound has been injected, it will form a deposit in the muscle tissue (depot) from which it will slowly enter circulation. Generally the larger the ester chain, the more oil soluble the steroid compound will be, and the longer it will take for the full dosage to be released. Once free in circulation, enzymes will quickly remove the ester chain and the parent hormone will be free to exert its activity (while the ester is present the steroid is inert).
There are a wide number of esters, which can provide varying release times, used in medicine today. To compare, an ester like decanoate can extend the release of active parent drug into the blood stream for three to four weeks, while it may only be extended for a few days with an acetate or propionate ester. The use of an ester allows for a much less frequent injection schedule than if using a water-based (straight) testosterone, which is much more comfortable for the patient. We must remember when calculating dosages, that the ester is figured into the steroid's measured weight.100 mg of testosterone enanthate, therefore, contains much less base hormone than 100 mg of a straight testosterone suspension (in this case it equals 72 mg of testosterone). In some instances, an ester may account for roughly 40% or more of the total steroid weight, but the typical measure is somewhere around 15% to 35%. Below are the free base equivalents for several popular steroid compounds.
It is also important to stress the fact that esters do not alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way. They work only to slow its release. It is quite common to hear people speak about the properties of different esters, almost as if they can magically alter a steroid's effectiveness. This is really nonsense. Enanthate is not more powerful than cypionate (perhaps a few extra milligrams of testosterone released per injection, but nothing to note), nor is Sustanon some type of incredible testosterone blend.Personally, I have always considered Sustanon a very poor buy in the face of cheaper 250 mg enanthate ampules. Your muscle cells see only testosterone; ultimately there is no difference. Reports of varying levels of muscle gain, androgenic side effects, water retention, etc. are only issues of timing. Faster releasing testosterone esters will produce estrogen build up faster simply because there is more testosterone free in the blood from the start of the cycle. The same is true when we state that Durabolin® is amilder nandrolone for women compared to Deca. It is simply easier to control the blood level with a faster acting drug. Were virilization symptoms to become apparent,hormone levels will drop much faster once we stop administration. This should not be confused with the notion that the nandrolone in Durabolin® acts differently in the body than that released from a shot of Deca-Durabolin®.
It is also worth noting that while the ester is typically hydrolyzed in general circulation, some will be hydrolyzed at the injection site where the steroid depot first contacts blood. This will cause a slightly higher concentration of both free steroid and ester in the muscle where the drug had been administered. On the plus side, this may equate to slightly better growth in this muscle, as more hormone is made available to nearby cells. Many bodybuilders have come to swear by the use of injection sites such as the deltoids, biceps, and triceps, truly believing better growth can be achieved if the steroid is injected directly into these muscles.
The negative to this is that the ester itself may be irritating to the tissues at the site of injection once it is broken free. In some instances it can be so caustic that the muscle itself will become swollen and sore due to the presence of the ester, and the user may even suffer a low grade fever as the body fights off the irritant (the onset of such symptoms typically occurs 24-72 hours after injection). This effect is more common with small chain esters such as propionate and acetate, and can actually make a popular steroid such as Sustanon (which contains testosterone propionate) off-limits for some users who experience too much discomfort to justify using the drug. Longer chain esters such as decanoate and cypionate are typically much less irritating at the site of injection, and therefore are preferred by sensitive individuals.
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So actually, I think I have hypothyroid symptoms as well. During my appointment today, we decided to start me on dessicated thyroid. So unfortunately, this propionate experiment won’t really be valid, due to me going on thyroid medication at the exact same time. I wish I could patient, and switch to propionate now, and wait a few months to start the desiccated thyroid, but my brain fog is just so extremely bad.
madman
Super Moderator
It is also important to stress the fact that esters do not alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way. They work only to slow its release. It is quite common to hear people speak about the properties of different esters, almost as if they can magically alter a steroid's effectiveness. This is really nonsense. Enanthate is not more powerful than cypionate (perhaps a few extra milligrams of testosterone released per injection, but nothing to note), nor is Sustanon some type of incredible testosterone blend.
Reports of varying levels of muscle gain, androgenic side effects, water retention, etc. are only issues of timing. Faster releasing testosterone esters will produce estrogen build up faster simply because there is more testosterone free in the blood from the start of the cycle.
Some things to keep in mind when people rant and rave about various t-esters.
Reports of varying levels of muscle gain, androgenic side effects, water retention, etc. are only issues of timing. Faster releasing testosterone esters will produce estrogen build up faster simply because there is more testosterone free in the blood from the start of the cycle.
Some things to keep in mind when people rant and rave about various t-esters.
You’re absolutely right. But sometimes there’s just things we can’t explain just yet, in regards to why certain methods might work for some, and not work for others. The body is so complicated. I mean why do creams work better for some? Is it because the body likes the ebb and flow of them more? Is it because guys on creams usually still have some natural LH and FSH production goin on? Is it because of the spike in DHT these guys get, and that is possibly opposing the side effects of too high E2, among DHT having its own direct benefits. Is it possibly due to the testosterone receptors being a little more sensitive due to the ebb and flow of creams, and not being highly stimulated 24/7? I honestly have no idea really. I’m sure smarter people than me probably have a better idea than I do. But my point is, you’re absolutely right, an esther doesn’t alter the effects of the parent steroid, but maybe there’s other factors that might need to be considered when we discuss why a certain esther or delivery method may work better for some, and not for others. And why for some, it can seem like a miracle compound compared to another esther/ delivery system.
Sean Mosher
Member
What's your NDT dose?
I’m starting off very low, and going pretty slow. Just starting off with 1/4 of a grain, and gonna bump it up 1/4 of a grain every 2 weeks or so. Sucks though, seems there’s like a national shortage of NDT apparently. Empower’s NDT is currently on back order, so I’m gonna try and get WP Thyroid from my local CVS. But have a feeling it might be hard to get too, from what I’ve read online.
madman
Super Moderator
I am not talking about comparing certain methods/effectiveness between transdermal vs injections.
I am speaking of testosterone esters.
Again as stated "It is also important to stress the fact that esters do not alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way. They work only to slow its release"
The ester only controls the release rate from the injection depot.
Once free in circulation, enzymes will quickly remove the ester chain and the parent hormone will be free to exert its activity (while the ester is present the steroid is inert).
Regardless of the ester used..... "Once free in circulation, enzymes will quickly remove the ester chain and the parent hormone will be free to exert its activity (while the ester is present the steroid is inert)"
Propionate will hit the system quicker but again once the ester is cleaved testosterone is testosterone and it comes down to how said dose of T effects ones TT/FT/e2/dht levels and dose of T/injection frequency and ones SHBG levels will play a strong role.
Definitely. Well we’ll see if I notice any differences good or bad. But it won’t be a true comparison. I’m starting NDT at the same time, plus Dr. Saya lowered my dose from 161mg/ week to 122mg/ week.
Don't mind at all. Here are my latest thyroid labs.
T3 total - 83 (76-181)
T4 total - 5.6 (4.5-10.5)
Free T3 - 3.7 (2.3-4.2)
Free t4 - 0.9 (0.8-1.8)
Rt3 - 11 (8-25)
TSH - 0.73 (0.4-4.5)
Thyroglobulin antibodies - (<1)
Thyroid peroxidase antibodies - (1)
I'm very eager as well. I really wish I had the patience to start propionate and NDT at separate times, to really see how they effect me individually, but I know myself, and I know I don't have that kind of patience. But I honestly think both of these things are going to make a pretty big difference. Most likely the NDT is going to have the biggest impact, but going by other people's experience with prop, there's definitely a possibility switching esthers can make a drastic change as well. It seems hit or miss though. So curious to see if I'm one that benefits from it or not. Time will tell. But I have this thread saved, so I'll definitely post here with any updates, mostly in regards to any changes that I can tell are from the test prop, as that is what this thread is about. If I notice any big changes, I'll make a separate thread with my progress.
Appreciate the kind words. I'm optimistic as well.
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