T3 & Total Testosterone

[Gokk]

Dear All,

Over the last six months I added T3 supplementation to my TRT protocol, which is as follows:

Testosterone Cypionate: 110 mg per week (35mg + 35 mg + 40 mg)
HCG: 600 IU per week (200+200+200)

Before adding T3 to my protocol, my Total Testosterone was consistently in the 1000-1200 range. However with the addition of T3 (Cytomel 20mg per day) my Total Testosterone has decreased to below the 1000 ng/dL threshold. Specifically the most recent measurements were:

980 (9/2016), 978 (11/2016), 980 (1/2017) and 823 (2/2017). The thyroid values in this latest blood work came back quite elevated:

Free T4: 3.1 [0.8-1.7]
Free T3: 8.3 [2.0-4.4]
T3 Uptake: 46 [27-41%]
Reverse T3: 43 [9.2-24.1]

It seems to me that in my case T3 supplementation has led to a decrease of Total Testosterone. Is my conclusion reasonable? Can indeed T3 supplementation cause a reduction in Total Testosterone? ....particularly in my case where it seems that my endocrinologist may have perhaps overdosed T3. Otherwise I do not quite understand what could have caused a reduction in my Total T, given that apart from T3, my TRT protocol has remained unchanged.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Will Brink]

Dear All,

Over the last six months I added T3 supplementation to my TRT protocol, which is as follows:

Testosterone Cypionate: 110 mg per week (35mg + 35 mg + 40 mg)
HCG: 600 IU per week (200+200+200)

Before adding T3 to my protocol, my Total Testosterone was consistently in the 1000-1200 range. However with the addition of T3 (Cytomel 20mg per day) my Total Testosterone has decreased to below the 1000 ng/dL threshold. Specifically the most recent measurements were:

980 (9/2016), 978 (11/2016), 980 (1/2017) and 823 (2/2017). The thyroid values in this latest blood work came back quite elevated:

Free T4: 3.1 [0.8-1.7]
Free T3: 8.3 [2.0-4.4]
T3 Uptake: 46 [27-41%]
Reverse T3: 43 [9.2-24.1]

It seems to me that in my case T3 supplementation has led to a decrease of Total Testosterone. Is my conclusion reasonable? Can indeed T3 supplementation cause a reduction in Total Testosterone? ....particularly in my case where it seems that my endocrinologist may have perhaps overdosed T3. Otherwise I do not quite understand what could have caused a reduction in my Total T, given that apart from T3, my TRT protocol has remained unchanged.

Thank you for your help.

If you lower your T3 dose to get it where it should be withing the range and also note your TT goes back up, more support for the connection. As it is, your well outside the T4/t3 ranges and that's what I'd focus on first, then see what the T levels do in response.

- Will @ BrinkZone.com

 

[HarryCat]

Curious how you feel with thyroid levels that high. Do you have hyperthyroid symptoms?

 

[FrankUnderwood]

Do you mean 20mcg per day? 20mg of T3 would be an insanely high dose.

Why did you add T3 to your TRT protocol?

Id worry less about a slight drop in total T and instead focus on how you feel. Do you feel ok?

Dear All,

Over the last six months I added T3 supplementation to my TRT protocol, which is as follows:

Testosterone Cypionate: 110 mg per week (35mg + 35 mg + 40 mg)
HCG: 600 IU per week (200+200+200)

Before adding T3 to my protocol, my Total Testosterone was consistently in the 1000-1200 range. However with the addition of T3 (Cytomel 20mg per day) my Total Testosterone has decreased to below the 1000 ng/dL threshold. Specifically the most recent measurements were:

980 (9/2016), 978 (11/2016), 980 (1/2017) and 823 (2/2017). The thyroid values in this latest blood work came back quite elevated:

Free T4: 3.1 [0.8-1.7]
Free T3: 8.3 [2.0-4.4]
T3 Uptake: 46 [27-41%]
Reverse T3: 43 [9.2-24.1]

It seems to me that in my case T3 supplementation has led to a decrease of Total Testosterone. Is my conclusion reasonable? Can indeed T3 supplementation cause a reduction in Total Testosterone? ....particularly in my case where it seems that my endocrinologist may have perhaps overdosed T3. Otherwise I do not quite understand what could have caused a reduction in my Total T, given that apart from T3, my TRT protocol has remained unchanged.

Thank you for your help.

 

[HanOng]

Hi Gokk

Why the T3 to your TRT+HCG protocol? Your thyroid seems to be functioning well.

I have really low T4 and low TSH (doc only put me on 50mg T4 daily) and recently switched to HCG-mono therapy (5th week now) and have yet to run new bloodwork (scheduled in another 3 weeks' time).

Would love to find out more about the effects and rationale from you. Thanks!

 

[Gokk]

Sorry...Indeed I meant 20 mcg. I actually feel fine....which is strange, because at these levels of FT4, FT3 etc. I should experience some symptoms of Hyperthyroidism....but in fact this is not at all the case...

 

[Gokk]

I added T3 becuse my levels were borderline low...so I thought I could get some benefits from T3 supplementation. It turned out that it did not make any meaningful difference...

 

[sfpowerlift]

I added T3 becuse my levels were borderline low...so I thought I could get some benefits from T3 supplementation. It turned out that it did not make any meaningful difference...

Interesting - I've been thinking about getting more serious about my T3 levels. Fortunately, they've always been in normal range.

 

[Vettester Chris]

Dear All,

Over the last six months I added T3 supplementation to my TRT protocol, which is as follows:

Testosterone Cypionate: 110 mg per week (35mg + 35 mg + 40 mg)
HCG: 600 IU per week (200+200+200)

Before adding T3 to my protocol, my Total Testosterone was consistently in the 1000-1200 range. However with the addition of T3 (Cytomel 20mg per day) my Total Testosterone has decreased to below the 1000 ng/dL threshold. Specifically the most recent measurements were:

980 (9/2016), 978 (11/2016), 980 (1/2017) and 823 (2/2017). The thyroid values in this latest blood work came back quite elevated:

Free T4: 3.1 [0.8-1.7]
Free T3: 8.3 [2.0-4.4]
T3 Uptake: 46 [27-41%]
Reverse T3: 43 [9.2-24.1]

It seems to me that in my case T3 supplementation has led to a decrease of Total Testosterone. Is my conclusion reasonable? Can indeed T3 supplementation cause a reduction in Total Testosterone? ....particularly in my case where it seems that my endocrinologist may have perhaps overdosed T3. Otherwise I do not quite understand what could have caused a reduction in my Total T, given that apart from T3, my TRT protocol has remained unchanged.

Thank you for your help.

OK, at 20mcg of Cytomel, your FT3 serum is yielding 8.3pg/ml, and to boot your RT3 ratio is still 19.3. The concerning part is that you're not even taking any T4 or T4/T3 combo NDT, but RT3 is up! This is a key marker that lets you know something is amiss!!

On the scale of thyroid meds, 20mcg of T3 Cytomel is less than 1 Grain of NDT, actually approx. 80% of just 1 grain. That shouldn't even be enough to get you to 50% or 60% of the reference range on FT3, let alone anywhere near that level.

T3 either ...
1) Gets transported to the cells and does its magic.
2) or it is unable to get transported to the cells and goes nowhere.

When T3 goes nowhere, serum levels rise, that's referred to as "Pooling". The body's main mechanism to balance this event is to shift a fair concentration of T4 conversion to RT3. Since you're bypassing the natural process of this event by supplementing Cytomel T3, it can only proceed on a forward path, which again either makes it to the cells or it doesn't. Even more baffling, how does your T4 go over the top when taking T3 medication??

IMO, you need to look primarily at iron serum, TIBC, ferritin, full 24 hour cortisol. Those are KEY critical areas that have to be decent in order for T3 to work. Supporting labs beyond that will be your electrolytes, D3, B12, and I'm real curious what your Antibody tests look like; both TgAb and TPO? FT4 is even over the top, something is WAY off!! (this at least explains where the RT3 conversion is coming from)!

 

[Vettester Chris]

Do you have a current TSH lab? Do you by chance also have some other pituitary related labs??, i.e, prolactin, LH/FSH, ACTH,..?

 

[paralyzer]

I'll take a stab - I'm no doctor - but my best explanation -

Sometimes your thyroid is so overworked that it's in chaos. When it finally receives the help it needs, it could scramble all of the brain signals, which might inadvertently suppress testosterone (as the thyroid now wants to take over the system).

I'm sure things will fall back in order soon - I would put more emphasis on your next blood test rather than this one.

 

[meanbreen]

This is a very interesting thread, I would really be interested to see how you are doing now Gokk and updated BW?