Started HCG alongside TRT, docs say to wait 8 weeks for it to settle

[skullmaggots]

I'll keep this short and to the point. I've been on TRT for 2yrs and have as of 2.5 weeks ago added HCG 250iu E3D, with the shot the day before my T dose of 50mg also every E3D. I also take 50mg DHEA and 25mg Pregnenolone ED.

Doctor told me to wait 8 weeks and see where I end up with next set of bloods when I raised the question about managing the inevitable increase in E2, and no I'm not fat, I eat clean, don't drink and workout 5 days a week with quite a bit of muscle. He implied that the body would adjust and turn down the aromatisation a little and it would balance out. I've never heard that before and my experience is if your E2 goes high it stays there until adjust things, never heard that time alone would do that. My e2 on the last test 1 week ago, was 71 pg/mL. L like to be around 35-45.

I'm currently very tired, and my morning wood a little lack lusture. I'm also holding some water and my physique has become less defined and I've gains a few pounds. My instinct would be to manage the e2 by taking some micro-doses of Aromasin which works very well for me and I'm quite experience in how much works for me. However, the doc told me to leave it until unless I get symptoms.

So the questions is should I wait 8 weeks (my guess is he will say yeah your e2 is too high and you need to manage it) or should I just deal with it now, or is that interfering with what my body might sort out itself?

 

[Phil Goodman]

I’d recommend giving your body time to sort things out. Also, and this is just a theory that I have, but I think it’s possible HCG can make some people less able to tolerate pregnenolone. That probably wouldn’t explain the water weight, but could explain the tiredness. Now that I’m on HCG I can’t tolerate pregnenolone at all. My energy, motivation, and overall well-being decreases noticeably any time I try it(so don’t try it anymore). I also find it hard to believe that HCG would have that much of an impact that fast. It’s not like your leydig cells all immediately jump back up to functioning at 100%. It takes a few weeks(at least 3-4) to get everything back up and running, or at least that’s how I understand it. I don’t think 3 doses of HCG would make that much of a difference(since you said you took the test 1.5 weeks into new protocol). If you’re interested I can go back and dig up my blood work from before adding HCG and the levels I’ve had afterwards.

 

[skullmaggots]

That's interesting about the pregnenolone. I was taking preg and dhea in an effort to backfill as I was feeling very tired and my bloods came back with extremely low progesterone, and dhea sulphate was also low. I'd been doing that for a couple of months and my energy had started to come back a little. However I've now hopped onto HCG and initially felt great, and then feel exhausted again. I was trying to keep everything the same. Maybe I should drop the 25mg pregnenolone ED, and see if the tiredness abates a little. I've now been taking HCG for 2.5 weeks and my balls hang lower, are bigger and my ejaculate volume has improved, so they have definitely fired up to some extent. I'm a 52m and I think that shutting down my HPTA took away a ton of benefits from the increased test, so I'm looking to have a more HRT solution that just TRT.

 

[Phil Goodman]

That's interesting about the pregnenolone. I was taking preg and dhea in an effort to backfill as I was feeling very tired and my bloods came back with extremely low progesterone, and dhea sulphate was also low. I'd been doing that for a couple of months and my energy had started to come back a little. However I've now hopped onto HCG and initially felt great, and then feel exhausted again. I was trying to keep everything the same. Maybe I should drop the 25mg pregnenolone ED, and see if the tiredness abates a little. I've now been taking HCG for 2.5 weeks and my balls hang lower, are bigger and my ejaculate volume has improved, so they have definitely fired up to some extent. I'm a 52m and I think that shutting down my HPTA took away a ton of benefits from the increased test, so I'm looking to have a more HRT solution that just TRT.

I’ve heard of lots of guys on trt who can’t tolerate pregnenolone, and I’m one of them. Before starting trt I could take 100 mg/day with no issues(and what seemed like some benefits). Now if I take 25 mg/day for a week straight I’ll be way down by the end of the week. Last time I decided to give it a chance was in an effort to improve sleep, which it did a little but definitely wasn’t worth it. And my sleep problems resolved themselves like they always do so I decided to not try it anymore. I’m the complete opposite with DHEA. I split my 25 mgs into quarters and just take 6.25 mgs per day. Much more than that and I have way too much energy. If the tiredness existed before introducing HCG I’d look into other possible causes first, like the pregnenolone for starters. You could try dropping it for two weeks and see how you feel. But with the new issues like water weight, that could be due to HCG…but normally issues like that resolve themselves as the body adjusts to the new normal. Of course everyone is different, which is one of the things that can make it difficult for us to all find what works best for us. Just another reason forums like this are so helpful.

 

[Systemlord]

I'm a 52m and I think that shutting down my HPTA took away a ton of benefits from the increased test, so I'm looking to have a more HRT solution that just TRT.

Why did you start TRT?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

50 mg DHEA is a hefty dose and might be contributing to the high E2. What's the purpose behind that? Might be another thing to try dropping or reducing now that you're taking hCG.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

i'm on 30mg Tprop daily/ 1000IU HCG 3x/week, 100mg pregnenolone, 25mg DHEA. e2 sensitive around 50-60 pg/ml and feeling pretty good overall. fatigue can be a million things tbh. I don't think 8 weeks are needed for things to stabilize with added HCG. it won't hurt to try a low dose AI and see if there is any difference. too high e2 in my case would cause mood/anxiety issues for sure. you should feel a difference within 24h of taking AI.

 

[skullmaggots]

Why did you start TRT?

I was struggling with my sexual function, had low energy, and mood. My blood results showed around 200-300 ng/dL, and my free T was in the gutter as my SHBG was 50-60.

 

[skullmaggots]

50 mg DHEA is a hefty dose and might be contributing to the high E2. What's the purpose behind that? Might be another thing to try dropping or reducing now that you're taking hCG.

2 reasons, I was initially taking 25mg to help with energy and insulin sensitity. I'm a type 1 diabetic and DHEA hugely improves insulin sensitivity. Since being on TRT and DHEA my blood sugars are incredible which that alone is worth doing. I moved to 50mg because I was suffering from fatigue, it helped a little but didn't really fix it. I'm sure I could drop to 25mg and probably not noticed a difference.

 

[skullmaggots]

i'm on 30mg Tprop daily/ 1000IU HCG 3x/week, 100mg pregnenolone, 25mg DHEA. e2 sensitive around 50-60 pg/ml and feeling pretty good overall. fatigue can be a million things tbh. I don't think 8 weeks are needed for things to stabilize with added HCG. it won't hurt to try a low dose AI and see if there is any difference. too high e2 in my case would cause mood/anxiety issues for sure. you should feel a difference within 24h of taking AI.

Yeah I understand fatigue is hard to track down. I have some days, even several in a row when my energy levels are great, and then some where I'm totally drained. I train hard 4-5 times a week, but I've been doing that most of my life. Unfortunately I cannot get e2 sensitive as I'm the UK. I just know something is making me really tired, like I have to sleep. I did wonder why my progesterone was completely bottomed out, that can't be right? I also looked into dhea sulphate and pregnenlone and my levels were not good. Since supplementing my dhea suplate is mid-range, not tested pregnenlone again. Your HCG is a hefty dose tbf, is that 3000iu a week? My theory is I want my balls to work naturally to some extent, and ideally I would just need HCG + Test + micro AI and I'm done and feeling good.

 

[skullmaggots]

I’ve heard of lots of guys on trt who can’t tolerate pregnenolone, and I’m one of them. Before starting trt I could take 100 mg/day with no issues(and what seemed like some benefits). Now if I take 25 mg/day for a week straight I’ll be way down by the end of the week. Last time I decided to give it a chance was in an effort to improve sleep, which it did a little but definitely wasn’t worth it. And my sleep problems resolved themselves like they always do so I decided to not try it anymore. I’m the complete opposite with DHEA. I split my 25 mgs into quarters and just take 6.25 mgs per day. Much more than that and I have way too much energy. If the tiredness existed before introducing HCG I’d look into other possible causes first, like the pregnenolone for starters. You could try dropping it for two weeks and see how you feel. But with the new issues like water weight, that could be due to HCG…but normally issues like that resolve themselves as the body adjusts to the new normal. Of course everyone is different, which is one of the things that can make it difficult for us to all find what works best for us. Just another reason forums like this are so helpful.

Thanks for the reply. Interestingly I was winning the fatigue battle with T(116mg) + DHEA(50) + Preg (25), Since adding HCG the tiredness came back.

 

[t_spacemonkey]

Yeah I understand fatigue is hard to track down. I have some days, even several in a row when my energy levels are great, and then some where I'm totally drained. I train hard 4-5 times a week, but I've been doing that most of my life. Unfortunately I cannot get e2 sensitive as I'm the UK. I just know something is making me really tired, like I have to sleep. I did wonder why my progesterone was completely bottomed out, that can't be right? I also looked into dhea sulphate and pregnenlone and my levels were not good. Since supplementing my dhea suplate is mid-range, not tested pregnenlone again. Your HCG is a hefty dose tbf, is that 3000iu a week? My theory is I want my balls to work naturally to some extent, and ideally I would just need HCG + Test + micro AI and I'm done and feeling good.

I get it....yeah 3k IU. works great. how is your thyroid, T3/T4? what is your diet. also vit D levels. UK is difficult for sun exposure but this is another important factor. have you tried tanning beds to get some UV?

 

[Systemlord]

I train hard 4-5 times a week, but I've been doing that most of my life.

I believe this is your original problem right here, cutting to get ripped increases SHBG and lowers Free T while increasing Total T. Endurance athletes have the same problem and suppressed Free T.

If you're continuing the same action the led to the low-T while on TRT, TRT will not allowed you to overtrain without consequences.

 

[Phil Goodman]

Thanks for the reply. Interestingly I was winning the fatigue battle with T(116mg) + DHEA(50) + Preg (25), Since adding HCG the tiredness came back.

Gotcha. Maybe you’re one of the people that can tolerate pregnenolone but not HCG. I know lots of guys say they don’t do well on HCG but sometimes I kind of think they just don’t let their body adjust, and just end up dropping it pretty quickly. Though it is quite possible they wouldn’t do well with it no matter how long they give it. Do you have past bloodwork available? Adding HCG didn’t really change my T/E ratio much if at all. Again, my levels were a little higher on my last bloodwork, but I don’t feel any negative effects. It also could’ve just been due to timing since testosterone and estrogen levels are always changing throughout the week. For me HCG has been a great addition, but I also understand it isn’t for everyone. Has sensitivity and orgasms improved now that you’ve been on it for a few weeks? I’d give it a few more weeks, then if you’re still having issues you can always take the approach you’re considering and add a tiny dose AI. I tend to lean towards a minimized approach though, so if that can be avoided it would probably be better. But if that’s the missing piece and makes everything work great then go for it.


Edit to add - the input regarding vitamin D could be worth considering, but I wouldn’t imagine it would come up as an issue in the summer. And as mentioned heavy training could be a factor, but that’s probably only if you’re in a caloric deficit for extended periods of time.