I have heard
Kyzatrex can reverse testicular atrophy to some extent versus injectables, is this correct?
Is it reasonable to expect similar free and total T numbers on
Kyzatrex as e.g. EOD test cyp injections or is there an upper limit?
I have heard Kyzatrex can reverse testicular atrophy to some extent versus injectables, is this correct?
Kyzatrex (oral TU) dosed 2x daily will result in less suppression of the hpta than injectable esterified T due to the PK which will result in 2 shorter-lived daily peaks with longer trough times between doses.
The trough levels achieved (sub-physiologic) are nothing to brag about!
From the most recent pilot study I uploaded in (post #8).
High-dosed oral TU (
Kyzatrex 400 mg) BID,
LH/FSH while lower were maintained at non-zero levels, minimal impact on hematocrit!
None of the patients reported testicular atrophy.
Even then need to keep in mind the only way for an individual to truly know how much
testicular shrinkage occurred would be to have testicular volume measured using a prader orchidometer or ultrasonography pre/post TRT.
You would never truly know playing the guessing game!
Hot off the press! You heard it here first, Nelson's domain is where it's at! High-dosed oral TU (
Kyzatrex 400 mg) BID, LH/FSH while lower were maintained at non-zero levels, minimal impact on hematocrit! *At a mean follow up time of 6 months, patients demonstrated a significant increase in...
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*At a mean follow up time of 6 months, patients demonstrated a significant increase in TT (263 to 798 ng/dL), drop in SHBG (32.4 to 17.83 nmol/L), and increase in calculated fT (7.24 to 26.74 ng/dL). FSH and LH, while lower, were maintained at non-zero levels (FSH from 5.7 to 2.9 mIU/mL and LH from 3.3 to 1.9 mIU/mL). Estradiol modestly increased (20.5 to 24.7 pg/mL) while hematocrit did not significantly increase (44.9% to 47.4%). No patients reported testicular atrophy or were initiated on aromatase inhibitors. One patient had a hematocrit rise above 52% (53.2%) and was reduced to 300 mg BID.
* Initiating oral TU therapy with Kyzatrex at 400 mg BID is safe and effective in achieving therapeutic serum testosterone levels. The high dose was well-tolerated and resulted in substantial symptom improvement, high patient satisfaction, and adherence. These findings support considering a higher starting dose for hypogonadal men considering oral TU therapy.
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Also keep in mind there are only 2 other studies on oral TU/gonadotropins using Jatenzo and one was short-term (2 weeks) which had minimal impact while the other study was much longer (16 weeks) and showed a strong suppression of LH/FSH.
Suppression of LH 75%!
Again the most recent pilot study using high-dosed oral TU (
Kyzatrex 400 mg) BID mean follow-up time 6 months LH/FSH while lower were maintained at non-zero levels.
Other than nasal T gel (Natesto) any form of exogenous whether T pellets, oral esterified T (Jatenzo), transdermal gels/creams, injectable esterified T when used in therapeutic doses to treat low testosterone will have a strong impact on suppression on the hpta.
Formulation/PKs, dosing protocol/minimum effective doses needed to raise T levels in order to achieve a healthy FT level in order to provide relief/improvement of symptoms will results in suppression of the hpta.
Long and medium-acting injectable esterified TU/TC/TE/mixed will have the strongest impact.
Even short-acting injectable esterified TP can still have a strong suppressive effect on the hpta
As I stated in a previous thread when using daily short-acting TP the T levels achieved peak vs trough let alone the time period over those 24 hrs T levels are elevated whether mid-range/high/absurdly high will still result in a strong suppression of the hpta.
Top it off there are many injecting daily TP hitting very high/absurdly high peaks let alone healthy troughs.
Next would be oral TU (Jatenzo) and transdermals.
Nasal T gel would be the least suppressive due to the PK/dosing protocol.
Any formulation that has a strong suppressive effect on the hpta will result in
testicular shrinkage and negative effect on fertility/spermatogenesis.
As you would know the addition of an LH mimetic (hCG) will allow one to maintain some degree of intra-testicular testosterone (ITT) which will helps minimize/prevent testicular atrophy and maintain fertility while using exogenous T.
The addition of hCG + rFSH would be more effective!
Is it reasonable to expect similar free and total T numbers on Kyzatrex as e.g. EOD test cyp injections or is there an upper limit?
Looking over any of the studies done using oral TU one can easily achieve a high-end and in some cases very high peak TT/FT level let alone a small % of outliers have been able to hit an absurdly high peak!
Another
oral testosterone undecanoate. https://www.empr.com/home/news/fda-approves-oral-testosterone-replacement-therapy-
kyzatrex/
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*The percentage of patients who received KYZATREX and had testosterone Cmax threshold less than or equal to 1200 ng/dL, between 1440 and 2000 ng/dL, and greater than 2000 ng/dL at the final PK visit were 88%, 4%, and 0%, respectively.
*The percentage of patients who received JATENZO and had Cmax less than or equal to 1500 ng/dL, between 1800 and 2500 ng/dL, and greater than 2500 ng/dL at the final PK visit were 83%, 3%, and 3%, respectively.
* The percentage of patients who received TLANDO and had a T Cmax threshold less than or equal to 1620 ng/dL, between 1944 ng/dL and 2700 ng/dL, and greater than 2700 ng/dL at the PK visit were 82%, 5%, and 0%, respectively.
Keep in mind dose used/absorption of T is what matters as the bioavailability is very low compared to injections.
Dose titration (Jatenzo or
Kyzatrex) needs to be kept in mind as not everyone will fare well or hit a high enough T level with the starting doses.
Did you get any nasty side effects by the way? None. I am looking at all the warnings and one of them says increase risk of death. That's a load of sh**! There's an increase risk of death living life, like crossing the street. There's increase risk of death with any other medicines.
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Even then one could never achieve the TT/FT (peak/trough) let alone steady-state levels that one can easily attain when using injectable T due to the dose of T/bioavailability/PK.
As I stated in a previous thread:
Keep in mind if your goal is to take advantage of the anabolic properties of T then injectables are where it's at as one can easily attain high/absurdly high trough FT levels.
When it comes to reaping the full anabolic benefits not only is having supra-physiological levels of FT steady-state 24/7 important but also how high you drive up FT levels.
When it comes to packing on size/mass/strength T is king!
Good day all. I've been on testosterone cypionate almost 7 years. I inject anywhere from 100 to 120 mg in total divided 2 times a week. Am 47. I'm feeling good consistently for years now. Looks like my insurance cover
oral testosterone. I did read some threads on here, I see system Lord is...
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Would definitely look into giving oral TU (
Kyzatrex) a go if you are interested!
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www.kyzatrex.com
