need some input

scguy2020 · Mar 17, 2018

hi guys i'm a 30 yr old male TRT. i started out on 180 MG injected every week and all went well i am also on 250 UI trouce of HCG 3 days a week and a esto blocker once a week. i was recently upped to 220 MG a week and i have started to decline my test levels dropped form 700 to 508 and i am starting to feel tired again and my testicles have also started to shrink again was just wondering you you guys had some any input or advice. thanks

CoastWatcher · Mar 17, 2018

scguy2020 said:
hi guys i'm a 30 yr old male TRT. i started out on 180 MG injected every week and all went well i am also on 250 UI trouce of HCG 3 days a week and a esto blocker once a week. i was recently upped to 220 MG a week and i have started to decline my test levels dropped form 700 to 508 and i am starting to feel tired again and my testicles have also started to shrink again was just wondering you you guys had some any input or advice. thanks

Welcome to Excelmale.

You are injecting 220mg of testosterone weekly, why such a steep dose? Is this a single, weekly dose or multiple doses over the course of the week? What is your free testosterone value and where does your SHBG sit - critical factors in determining if the protocol you are following is a help or hindrance. You added an AI; did you capture your estradiol level with the sensitive, LC, MS/MS, lab test? What were those results? Were here all your lab values drawn at trough, just prior to your next injection?

I know - a lot of questions. The more you can help us understand your situation the more helpful the discussion will be. Labs and background - we hope to hear from you.

scguy2020 · Mar 17, 2018

i totally understand i have my last lab results i will post them after i get home from work.

blackebob · Mar 17, 2018

Why did you push it up to 220?

Vince · Mar 17, 2018

If your testicles are shrinking, you either need to up your dose of HCG or what you're using is bad.

scguy2020 · Mar 17, 2018

i didn't i go to the low t center and thats what they moved me up to.

scguy2020 · Mar 17, 2018

i did not think of that i will have to check the date on it but is should be good i will have to see. thank you

CoastWatcher · Mar 17, 2018

scguy2020 said:
i didn't i go to the low t center and thats what they moved me up to.

Your protocol has all the signs of a cookie-cutter - something that, sadly, Low-T Center is noted for (expensive cookie-cutter protocols). Post up the lab values and we will offer some thoughts.

blackebob · Mar 17, 2018

scguy2020 said:
i didn't i go to the low t center and thats what they moved me up to.

Again, why?

scguy2020 · Mar 17, 2018

ok will do later

scguy2020 · Mar 17, 2018

that what they suggested.so that my levels will continue to go up

CoastWatcher · Mar 17, 2018

scguy2020 said:
that what they suggested.so that my levels will continue to go up

Foolish.

Where does our SHBG stand? If toward the lower end of the scale, all more testosterone will do is drive up your estradiol. That isn't an opinion on my part, it's a fact, a fact that should be known to any doctor practicing in this area. More testosterone does not necessarily equal higher total and free testosterone levels. Split-dosing, dividing weekly dose into multiple, smaller doses, will result in higher overall levels. Spikes are eliminated, estradiol may be easier to control, and subjective response is positive. Again, not my opinion, established fact. There is plenty of information here on the Forum supporting these points, studies and the testimony of our members.

You're working with a T-Mill. Throw a lot of testosterone at the patient, add an AI (whether it's needed or not), take his money, and repeat the cycle over and over. You deserve better care.

scguy2020 · Mar 18, 2018

where do you get your treatment at? or do you do it yourself .

scguy2020 · Mar 19, 2018

i ended up checking the Dates on my HCG and it had expired so that explains that.

CoastWatcher · Mar 19, 2018

scguy2020 said:
where do you get your treatment at? or do you do it yourself .

Finding a doctor who understands how this game is played is a challenge. Many, perhaps most, of us at EM had to consult more than one doctor before we were able to work with a physician who saw us as a partner, understood the underlying tenets of androgen replacement, and helped us design a protocol that brought success. In my case, I initially consulted a well known endocrinologist who holds an endowed chair at one of the medical schools here in Toronto. It was a disaster. My care is now provided by a woman who is certified in family practice but, like Drs. Saya, Crisler, and McClain (who hold the same certification), has a depth of knowledge in this area that is complete. My point is that they do exist, local practitioners, but not as easily found as we'd like. If I lived in the United States, I'd consult both Defy Medical and Prime Body, yes, site sponsors, but, no, I've no vested interest in their success. They operate on different practice models, Defy can treat you anywhere in the US, Prime Body is a group of networked physicians, so location does matter. It's likely to cost you less than the Low-T folks you're paying now.

Vettester Chris · Mar 19, 2018

As stated, the suggestions are aimed at trying to attain consistency and balance in your protocol. In fact, if you tweak it right, you possibly might not need any AI, and the body will be closer to homeostasis.

You mentioned "started to feel tired" ... Try not to put all the emphasis on testosterone as the solution for all things. This will be an area where you will want to look at the thyroid, adrenals, and of course the full picture of the CBC's, metabolic, and iron/ferritin.

Lastly, if the testicles responded to HCG, they should keep responding. IMO, stick with the old school method of HCG that you inject Sub Q, keep it in the fridge, and for me I don't let it go past 60 days before I am reconstituting another 5,000iu bottle.

Welcome to EM, glad you joined!

scguy2020 · Mar 20, 2018

thank you you guys have give great advice on here

AlexM · Mar 23, 2018

Vettester Chris said:
As stated, the suggestions are aimed at trying to attain consistency and balance in your protocol. In fact, if you tweak it right, you possibly might not need any AI, and the body will be closer to homeostasis.

You mentioned "started to feel tired" ... Try not to put all the emphasis on testosterone as the solution for all things. This will be an area where you will want to look at the thyroid, adrenals, and of course the full picture of the CBC's, metabolic, and iron/ferritin.

Lastly, if the testicles responded to HCG, they should keep responding. IMO, stick with the old school method of HCG that you inject Sub Q, keep it in the fridge, and for me I don't let it go past 60 days before I am reconstituting another 5,000iu bottle.

Welcome to EM, glad you joined!

^^This. My ferritin and vitamin D levels have to be good or I feel like crap.