Managing sides with daily microdosing?

[TestQuest22]

Back again, gang. I wanted to know: has anyone found that daily injections (microdosing) help with side effect management?

To be clear, I've been feeling great on my EOD protocol thus far (started at 200mg a week, but down to 160mg as of last week).

I'm losing fat, gaining plenty of muscle, doing extremely well at work and at home, and overall feeling good. My issue is that I am getting some gnarly back acne. I've tried it all (dietary changes, washing with 10% benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acid, using overnight acne sprays, showering immediately after my workout, etc.). I am definitely predisposed to acne flare-ups, with the occasional pimple on my back prior to starting TRT, but it's really bad now. I'm also retaining water a decent amount (I can see my sock imprint for a few minutes when I take my socks off after work and my face has been puffy). I've heard that these sides normally subside once you've been on TRT for a few months, but I'm six months in and they persist.

So, did anyone notice a difference by going to daily injections with regards to acne and water retention, specifically?

 

[bixt]

Following your other thread. You need to BOTH cut your dose (to 100mg) and do them daily for best side effect management, right now. I estimate that shld get you around 22-25 fT based on your labs, and E2 lower than 50 hopefully.

Thats going to get you somewhere, but I am not so sure its going to be enough in your case. You may need to reduce E2 further, the sock imprint, baloon face, acne and water retention are classic high E2. As you saw, they didnt dissipate after a couple months.

Whats your BF%?

 

[Vince]

Back again, gang. I wanted to know: has anyone found that daily injections (microdosing) help with side effect management?

To be clear, I've been feeling great on my EOD protocol thus far (started at 200mg a week, but down to 160mg as of last week).

I'm losing fat, gaining plenty of muscle, doing extremely well at work and at home, and overall feeling good. My issue is that I am getting some gnarly back acne. I've tried it all (dietary changes, washing with 10% benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acid, using overnight acne sprays, showering immediately after my workout, etc.). I am definitely predisposed to acne flare-ups, with the occasional pimple on my back prior to starting TRT, but it's really bad now. I'm also retaining water a decent amount (I can see my sock imprint for a few minutes when I take my socks off after work and my face has been puffy). I've heard that these sides normally subside once you've been on TRT for a few months, but I'm six months in and they persist.

So, did anyone notice a difference by going to daily injections with regards to acne and water retention, specifically?

I've never had any issues with water retention or acne. My issue was HCT. I had a donate blood every eight weeks. Once I went to daily injections I no longer had a donate blood. It doesn't work for everyone but daily injections controlled my HCT.

 

[Systemlord]

Back again, gang. I wanted to know: has anyone found that daily injections (microdosing) help with side effect management?

I had massive fluid retention issues on injections, even daily and in the end injections was never going to work for me with maybe the exception of test prop due to the shorter half-life.

I'm on Jatenzo now and not having any of the issues I had on injections. Jatenzo takes micro dosing to another level, twice daily.

I will never do well on TRT formulations will moderately long half-lives, short half-life formulations allow me to thrive.

I do have to get phlebotomies every 2 months.

I don't even know what my E2 levels are but my TT levels are on the high end at peak and lower end at trough.

My SHBG continue to increase and is currently 17, previously 11.

 

[bixt]

I'm on Jatenzo now and not having any of the issues I had on injections. Jatenzo takes micro dosing to another level, twice daily.

Thats fantastic to hear. Been following your history from T nation.

Cant recall though, have you tried high % T creams? Scrotal? Absorption issues?

I have tried neither Jatenzo nor creams (and dont have a need to), but on paper it seems that they are similar, from a concept of microdosing.

 

[Systemlord]

Cant recall though, have you tried high % T creams? Scrotal? Absorption issues?

I did have absorption issues as my levels were only elevated for about 3 hours, then felt a crash.

 

[TestQuest22]

Following your other thread. You need to BOTH cut your dose (to 100mg) and do them daily for best side effect management, right now. I estimate that shld get you around 22-25 fT based on your labs, and E2 lower than 50 hopefully.

Thats going to get you somewhere, but I am not so sure its going to be enough in your case. You may need to reduce E2 further, the sock imprint, baloon face, acne and water retention are classic high E2. As you saw, they didnt dissipate after a couple months.

Whats your BF%?

Probably sitting at 20% BF right now. I wanted to kick off the journey with a year of recomp then cut. I generally watch what I eat, eat a lot of protein, and lift heavy, but don't do a ton of cardio and don't really manage any of the macros too strictly outside of protein.

I had massive fluid retention issues on injections, even daily and in the end injections was never going to work for me with maybe the exception of test prop due to the shorter half-life.

I'm on Jatenzo now and not having any of the issues I had on injections. Jatenzo takes micro dosing to another level, twice daily.

I will never do well on TRT formulations will moderately long half-lives, short half-life formulations allow me to thrive.

I do have to get phlebotomies every 2 months.

I don't even know what my E2 levels are but my TT levels are on the high end at peak and lower end at trough.

My SHBG continue to increase and is currently 17, previously 11.

I'll definitely look into that if I see no progress with daily injections and a lowered dose.

 

[bixt]

Probably sitting at 20% BF right now.

Bring that down somewhat, even to 15% and you will notice another drop in E2.

I'm betting between the daily injections, lower dose and losing BF, your E2 will be sitting nicely and those high E2 symptoms will resolve. E2 gets converted in fat.

You will notice only non AI solutions have been given so far. I'm not anti low dose AI and as a last resort (or to test...) try something like 0.25mg arimidex once or twice a week. Use it as a temporary crutch to feel good and lose fat and then wean off it. 30-50mg zinc is also a good mild AI you could use right now, to safely knock down 10-15 points.

 

[madman]

Back again, gang. I wanted to know: has anyone found that daily injections (microdosing) help with side effect management?

To be clear, I've been feeling great on my EOD protocol thus far (started at 200mg a week, but down to 160mg as of last week).

I'm losing fat, gaining plenty of muscle, doing extremely well at work and at home, and overall feeling good. My issue is that I am getting some gnarly back acne. I've tried it all (dietary changes, washing with 10% benzoyl peroxide and salicylic acid, using overnight acne sprays, showering immediately after my workout, etc.). I am definitely predisposed to acne flare-ups, with the occasional pimple on my back prior to starting TRT, but it's really bad now. I'm also retaining water a decent amount (I can see my sock imprint for a few minutes when I take my socks off after work and my face has been puffy). I've heard that these sides normally subside once you've been on TRT for a few months, but I'm six months in and they persist.

So, did anyone notice a difference by going to daily injections with regards to acne and water retention, specifically?

Need to post labs.

200 mg T/week is a hefty dose let alone when split EOD or even daily would easily have trough FT level high/absurdly high.

Most sides are due to running too high an FT level.

Big swings in peak--->trough can have an impact.

What is your SHBG and where does your RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit sit?

Do you donate blood?

High estradiol is not the main driver when it comes to acne.

I would bet that on your previous protocol 200mg T split into EOD injections your trough FT let alone estradiol are very high.

The dead giveaway is the back acne/bloat which you have been struggling with for months on end.

A surefire way to improve things would be lowering your weekly dose and bringing down your FT.

Although many may tend to jump on dailies thinking that it will lower estradiol let alone hematocrit or improve acne it is not a given as even though peak--->trough will be minimal many make the mistake of still running too high an FT.

You are already injecting EOD so moving to dailies would not be drastic but I would try lowering your dose first (which you just did recently) then wait 6 weeks until blood levels have stabilized and get lab work done using the most accurate assays so you can see where your trough TT, FT, and estradiol sit let alone important blood markers such as RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit.