Low estrogen and DHEA ?

[teek_trek]

Hi guys,

Got my blood drawn, and here are the results.
To make it easier, conversion from mmols: 20pg/mL of estrogen, 1055 ng/mL testosterone and 80 µg/dL of DHEAs.

I have so many symptoms, constant fatigue, very dry and flaky skin, persistent ED problems, no muscle really ( might be just me not training enough ) and belly fat, although Im 187cm ( 6.1) and 75kg ( 165 ) 39y guy. Also joint pain that comes and goes.

I dont take anything, these are just natural levels, but i was hoping maybe someone could help me to figure out if my estrogen or DHEA levels ( or something else ) might cause it. my estrogen ranges from 16-22. My libido is pretty high, until i tried to take zinc, and it completely tanked, so i stopped. My potassium and albumin is on the higher end and ferritin around 90 ug/L.

Thank you for taking a look.

 

[Systemlord]

I have so many symptoms, constant fatigue, very dry and flaky skin, persistent ED problems, no muscle really ( might be just me not training enough ) and belly fat, although Im 187cm ( 6.1) and 75kg ( 165 ) 39y guy. Also joint pain that comes and goes.

Vitamin D levels?

Vitamin D and estrogen affect each other, low vitamin D and low estrogen are common in menopausal women.

To make it easier, conversion from mmols: 20pg/mL of estrogen

Estrogen is low in relation to testosterone.

You should supplement DHEA, which can convert to estrogen. I think the both of these are why you have on and off joint pain.

Got my blood drawn, and here are the results.
To make it easier, conversion from mmols: 20pg/mL of estrogen, 1055 ng/mL

So much context is missing! These could be trough, midpoint or peak levels for all I know.

When did you draw labs in relation to your injections?

 

[teek_trek]

My vitamin D levels are 132 nmol/L or 52.8 ng/mL

Im not on TRT, so not injecting.

 

[Systemlord]

At 6’1 165 lbs, your body type is that of an ectomorph, also known as a hardgainer, lean, skinny, and tall with little muscle mass which is par for the course for an ectomorph.

You can’t fight genetics. Fixing the lower DHEA should correct your issues.

Ectomorph should focus on high calorie intake, more than the average man, short intensive workouts targeting individual muscle groups. Ectomorphs have very fast metabolisms, which is why they tend to be leaner with less muscle mass.

I’m a mesomorph, we respond well to training and find it easy to build and maintain muscle mass. I already had some descent muscle mass before ever stepping foot in a gym.

 

[teek_trek]

Im eating alot, im constantly hungry, constantly.
I wouldnt say im very lean though, i have quite abit of fat near my belly / hip area.

Do you mean i should try to raise my DHEA levels ?

 

[Mastodont]

How about your pregnenolone?

 

[teek_trek]

How about your pregnenolone?

i havent tested my preg levels yet. Its a bit more complicated in BC, Canada, where you cant order your own tests, but im gonna test it soon. Anything else you would recommend testing ?

 

[Mastodont]

Anything else you would recommend testing ?

Yes progesterone, and perhaps DHT.

 

[Ribeye]

Hi guys,

Got my blood drawn, and here are the results.
To make it easier, conversion from mmols: 20pg/mL of estrogen, 1055 ng/mL testosterone and 80 µg/dL of DHEAs.

I have so many symptoms, constant fatigue, very dry and flaky skin, persistent ED problems, no muscle really ( might be just me not training enough ) and belly fat, although Im 187cm ( 6.1) and 75kg ( 165 ) 39y guy. Also joint pain that comes and goes.

I dont take anything, these are just natural levels, but i was hoping maybe someone could help me to figure out if my estrogen or DHEA levels ( or something else ) might cause it. my estrogen ranges from 16-22. My libido is pretty high, until i tried to take zinc, and it completely tanked, so i stopped. My potassium and albumin is on the higher end and ferritin around 90 ug/L.

Thank you for taking a look.

View attachment 43284
View attachment 43285

 

[Ribeye]

Your TSH looks good, but you seem like you have symptoms of Hashimoto's thyroiditis. That is, your body produces. anti thyroid antibodies that can accumulate in your joints and cause pain. you might want to ask your doc to check your free T 3 even though your TSH is not bad. Many with Hashimoto's have many of the symptoms you seem to have, and need to drive their TSH to borderline low levels to feel better. I did. When you do that, if you have Hashimoto's, it often takes so much of the workload off your thyroid, your immune system seems to back off on the antibodies reducing the joint soreness. The antibodies can be detected in blood tests. 39yr old shouldn't have that much joint pain, and the other symptoms you mention. Hypothyroidism can also contribute greatly to ED.

 

[teek_trek]

I did test my free T3 and it came back as 3.6 pg/mL, range 2.3-4.2 pg/mL.

 

[Ribeye]

I did test my free T3 and it came back as 3.6 pg/mL, range 2.3-4.2 pg/mL.

I'd suggest asking your doc to test you for Hashimoto's thyroiditis. If your body is producing antibodies to your thyroid gland, even though you levels are not yet low, it would explain the aches to some degree. Your symptoms do seem to match up to being hypothyroid, but your numbers suggest otherwise.

 

[teek_trek]

Yes progesterone, and perhaps DHT.

So my Pregnenolone was 55 ng/dL ( Range: 22-237 ng/dL )
DHT: 75 ng/dL ( Range: 12-65 ng/dL )
Progesterone less than 0.5 ng/mL ( Range: <1.4 ng/mL )
DHEAs 78 mcg/dL ( Range: 93-415 mcg/dL )
IGF-1 103 ng/mL ( Range: 53-331 ng/mL )
Testosterone: 1055 ng/dL
Estradiol ultra sensitive: 21 pg/mL

Zinc: 67 mcg/dL ( Range: 60-130 mcg/dL )
Copper: 89 mcg/dL ( Range: 70-175 mcg/dL )
Magnesium RBC 4.7 mg/dL ( Range: 4.0-6.4 mg/dL )

So estradiol on a lower side, DHT over the limit, DHEA under and minerals on the lower side.

 

[Mastodont]

Damn, i'm also in the same boat with super low preg and prog, for some reason dhea has not dropped like yours, but estradiol low as well when natty.
You said you eat alot, what is your diet like? Could it be you´re eating a lot of something thats blocking aromatase?

 

[teek_trek]

My diet is quite carb heavy ( pasta, rice etc ), cause if i up my protein, i always feel worse. My total protein and albumin are at the high end of the range though. I do eat vegetables / fruits, chicken and meat overall. All cholesterol markers are good as well.

 

[teek_trek]

Have you tried supplementing with pregnenolone or DHEA ?

 

[Mastodont]

My diet is quite carb heavy ( pasta, rice etc ), cause if i up my protein, i always feel worse. My total protein and albumin are at the high end of the range though. I do eat vegetables / fruits, chicken and meat overall. All cholesterol markers are good as well.

Ok, i was thinking if you might had been consuming shitloads of broccoli or other cruciferous vegetables. Any supplements?

Have you tried supplementing with pregnenolone or DHEA ?

Pregnenolone yes, a shitstorm, you never know how your body metabolizea oral pregnenolone until you try, lots of talk on here on pregnenolone supplementation, funnily some swear to keep the dose around 5-10mg and then some take 100-200mg, but often times you find it's hard to find someone who stayed on any pregnenolone protocol long term...I'd say it's pretty safe to experiment with, no permanent damage even if it messes you up, one more thing i will say, some take it at night, and others lose their sleep. Personally i found 50-100mg doses to give good energy throughout the day but messing up sleep at night, and 5-10mg both, ended up in forced napping during day when taken in the morning. It's hit or miss really. In your case it might be a good idea to supplement both pregnenolone and dhea, start low is probably a good strategy.

 

[teek_trek]

I have taken alot of supplements over time but at the moment nothing. The most notable was Bromelain, that messed up my digestion and tanked my e2 levels to undetectable. ( under 10 ). Would love to increase my zinc as well, being definitely on the lower side, but its hard to do without lowering estrogen. Every time i try to take zinc, i feel so much worse.

I can try to take DHEA and preg. I guess my only concern is my already over the range DHT levels. What ive read, DHEA is suppose to increase it even further

 

[Booganigan]

I have taken alot of supplements over time but at the moment nothing. The most notable was Bromelain, that messed up my digestion and tanked my e2 levels to undetectable. ( under 10 ). Would love to increase my zinc as well, being definitely on the lower side, but its hard to do without lowering estrogen. Every time i try to take zinc, i feel so much worse.

I can try to take DHEA and preg. I guess my only concern is my already over the range DHT levels. What ive read, DHEA is suppose to increase it even further

I am really similar to your description. Same body type and similar hormone profile (I'll post bloods in a separate post at some point).

Bottom line is, I have very high SHBG, low E2 and a high T/E ratio and pretty much no matter what I do I can't get my T/E2 ratio down and I seem to be suffering low estrogen symptoms (all the things you describe). I can gain very defined muscle, but I am tall and wiry by nature. I clearly run at a high metabolic rate as I can eat unlimited amounts of food and the most I get is a bit of loose belly fat... I am also a pretty restless person, if I don't exercise I get agitated and feel irritable.

Anything more than RDA Zinc lowers my E2 whereby I feel it... Cialis works for a few days, but then stops working and actually causes ED and I feel dreadful.

I have tried both Boron and DHEA, both are often recommended to raise E2...

Boron seems so promising as it is said that long term use raises E2 and helps improve bone density (mine is low), but it clearly crashes my E2 - within a week I feel dreadful. I read that it lowers E2 at first, and then after a few weeks it raises E2 - the mechanism for that is not clear. This last month I decided to try just 3mg a day and push through the pain for 4 weeks to see if E2 improved. After 4 weeks I felt more awful than ever and I just ran bloods and the Boron had raised my Total T, lowered my E2, lowered my DHEAs significantly and raised my prolactin significantly. SHBG remained the same. Miserable.
It's crazy, Ive read members of this forum take 6-10mg boron and don't even notice any change at all!

I have tried DHEA at a various doses, 10mg->25mg but it seems to quickly make me more agitated/irritable, causes sleep disturbance and I noticed my lower legs tend to swell (?). I've never taken it for much more than a week because of these symptoms. It seems to be a bit of a crap shoot as to what it converts to and I just dont know what it is doing in my case. My natural DHEAs is mid range (between 6-7 umol/L), not as low as yours. Taking the Boron dropped it by 30% though - a significant change, so watch out for that! I know studies suggest DHEA raises E2 in older men, but that may not be the case in all men. I suspect in my case it may be raising DHT or making the T/E ratio even higher? Never been on it long enough to test it.

You may consider TRT to lower SHBG but your natural production is already really high. My natural Total T is nowhere near yours so TRT was more justified, but it hasn't helped me much. Taking larger infrequent injections of T does lower my SHBG (never lower than 50) and E2 does goes up a bit, but to achieve that, my testosterone rockets so high it's like I have overdosed on amphetamines! I probably metabolise it quickly. In the end it gets so bad, I have to lower the dose and injection frequency just so I can function... then the SHBG raises immediately and I end up back at square 1.

Now I do have an autoimmune condition that might be complicating things for me (DHEA influences the immune system I think), but still, persistent high SHBG/low E2 can be a really tough nut to crack and if you do try things like Boron and DHEA, test before and after because the response can really depend on the individual (and given we seem to be similar "types" you may get an unexpected response like mine!)

If you try the DHEA, please report back because I'd like to hear how you respond.