Low Dopamine and ADHD while on TRT

[Gman86]

What dose of primo do you use ?

Currently using 80mg/ week. 100mg/ week had my E2 at 28, and I’m thinking maybe that’s a little too low for my body’s liking. So lowered it to 80mg/ week.

For reference, my E2 is around 85 on roughly the same protocol, and 28 with 100mg of primo. So primo for me is a pretty potent ai

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

I think it was either Dr. Mark Gordon or Dr. Crisler who observed this issue and recommended transdermal pregnenolone, HCG, and possibly occasional progesterone as a solution. Hopefully someone who follows Dr. Gordon can elaborate.

 

[jchems]

Currently using 80mg/ week. 100mg/ week had my E2 at 28, and I’m thinking maybe that’s a little too low for my body’s liking. So lowered it to 80mg/ week.

For reference, my E2 is around 85 on roughly the same protocol, and 28 with 100mg of primo. So primo for me is a pretty potent ai

Does that crush your SHBG?

 

[DS3]

Go snort a couple lines of coke everyday to self medicate your adhd and see how it slowly but surely stops working. Take a nice few weeks break, and like magic it works again. (Just an analogy, don't actually do this...).


Now, TRT high dose does the same thing. Spikes up T and also dopamine. You get nice and high 24/7 for a few days or weeks, and then guess what? Just like coke, you gonna crash. ADHD, weak will, low self esteem, low libido, low erection, low strength in gym, low everything will come back. Receptors are cooked while D levels are still high.

Just like you gotta get off the coke to resensitise your brain receptors, you gotta get off the high levels of T (which are causing high levels of D).

Solution? Alternate the dose!! Some weeks high (200mg), some weeks low (50mg), another week nothing. Or 10mg daily (prop) for weeks followed by 30mg daily (prop) for weeks. Or huge, large infrequent injections E2W or E3W. Pellets. Nebido taken per the leaflet. So many other options use your imagination and what's available to you. Avoid stable (high) levels bullshit at all costs.

Take your pick.

Variation is the name of the game.

You can't have EVERYTHING! Get with the highs and the lows and appreciate it all.


(and yeah, you will have to plan your training schedule to match the highs and lows. Go all out in the high T level times and take a break and do light cardio in the lows. Periodise the training. Thanks @madman for this idea you gave me in another post!! Appreciate it.).


Cue tons of flack for what I just said but IDK, many can be helped and get something instead of nothing.

This post is life.

 

[Systemlord]

Or you can just get on Jatenzo, the ultimate daily cycle of highs and lows.

 

[Gman86]

Does that crush your SHBG?

Depends on ur definition of crush lol. My SHBG runs right around 11 on this dose of primo. For most of my time on HRT my SHBG ran around 30. So it definitely dropped it pretty significantly

 

[Seagal]

Ive been circling around this for a while now. When I started(2020) TRT it was remarkable. I could inject 200mg a week. Sometimes 250-300 a week. Last year it all started spiraling down hill. I didnt notice that it was the trt, so I changed up numerous other things I was doing. Sex drive went down, soft erections. However, when I stopped injecting for over a week, erections came back, my mind was clear, and I could focus and be normal. However, lack of strength kept me from the gym due to no injections.

I thought estrogen, but estrogen was fine every time it was tested. So i lowered my dosage from 125 once a week, to 100, and not Im at 60mg, cause this is the level that helps me stay focus, and I have a job where I need to concentrate and be focus. My reason for TRT is I have a pitutary tumor, which also affects dopamine. My concentration had been so bad, I was diagnosed with ADHD a few weeks ago, which came as no surprise since I was diagnosed as a child, but my parents never put me on meds. I somehow have been managing it, and TRT i believe has brought it back with a vengeance. My question is what can I do?

I want my dosage back up because I was building muscle, and at 60mg, im just stuck not building anything. Im going back on cabergoline as well, since its a dopamine against. It's no doubt that trt has increased dopamine disruption in my system, and now I'm on day 6 no testosterone, and i feel wonderful. I wrote this in like 20 seconds, where it would have taken me a couple of hours to write this, and I probably would never respond. Just curious has anyone had this issue or knows anyone with a similar situation?

The question is now, what were your E2 levels at different T dosages, and how would you feel at different T levels while trying to keep your E2 levels corresponding to your 60mg T.
Not sure though, read all the responses and wonder what's the conclusion so far.

For me, adding HCG seems to make the difference. I cannot get a measurement of progesterone etc. Don't know my parameters, unfortunately.
There is supposed to be an hormone imbalance called "estrogen dominance", i.e. low progesterone vs estradiol. That is one can have low estradiol and still have estrogen dominance because of too little progesterone.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Or you can just get on Jatenzo, the ultimate daily cycle of highs and lows.

If you've got deep pockets or it's covered by insurance. I know you get yours through Kaiser. My Medicare PPO mail order pharmacy doesn't appear to cover it.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

Go snort a couple lines of coke everyday to self medicate your adhd and see how it slowly but surely stops working. Take a nice few weeks break, and like magic it works again. (Just an analogy, don't actually do this...).


Now, TRT high dose does the same thing. Spikes up T and also dopamine. You get nice and high 24/7 for a few days or weeks, and then guess what? Just like coke, you gonna crash. ADHD, weak will, low self esteem, low libido, low erection, low strength in gym, low everything will come back. Receptors are cooked while D levels are still high.

Just like you gotta get off the coke to resensitise your brain receptors, you gotta get off the high levels of T (which are causing high levels of D).

Solution? Alternate the dose!! Some weeks high (200mg), some weeks low (50mg), another week nothing. Or 10mg daily (prop) for weeks followed by 30mg daily (prop) for weeks. Or huge, large infrequent injections E2W or E3W. Pellets. Nebido taken per the leaflet. So many other options use your imagination and what's available to you. Avoid stable (high) levels bullshit at all costs.

Take your pick.

Variation is the name of the game.

You can't have EVERYTHING! Get with the highs and the lows and appreciate it all.


(and yeah, you will have to plan your training schedule to match the highs and lows. Go all out in the high T level times and take a break and do light cardio in the lows. Periodise the training. Thanks @madman for this idea you gave me in another post!! Appreciate it.).


Cue tons of flack for what I just said but IDK, many can be helped and get something instead of nothing.

Avoid an ai? Like @literally.me, I've read of a few men finding a small dose of an ai improves their sleep. I ponder that, as I've dealt with long term poor sleep and addicted to clonazepam for 16 years. My E2 on T is the the 30's to 40's(sensitive test).

Regarding steady state versus fluctuations, again based on reading, some men(a minority, IMO) either do better with a weekly small dose(under 100 mg) or inject a larger dose every 10 days or every 2 weeks. Topical is supposed to mimic fluctuation. The only protocol I've tried that actually produced relatively consistent, though limited results, was 100 mg IM, E5D. Got one strong erection around 10 p.m. No nocturnal erections, no morning wood, no daytime erections, though my libido was always present.

 

[Systemlord]

If you've got deep pockets or it's covered by insurance. I know you get yours through Kaiser. My Medicare PPO mail order pharmacy doesn't appear to cover it.

A medical exception from your doctor goes a long way to getting stuff covered by insurance. My insurance never would have covered it had it not been for treatment failure on all other delivery methods of TRT.

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

A medical exception from your doctor goes a long way to getting stuff covered by insurance. My insurance never would have covered it had it not been for treatment failure on all other delivery methods of TRT.

That's true, which I didn't think of until after I posted. I had something similar years ago when a psychiatrist wanted to prescribe a new medication. Because of treatment failure with similar meds, my insurer at the time, covered it.

You definitely seem to be having great success with Jatenzo. When I see my urologist in December I'll discuss it with him.