HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotropin) Vrs HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) - What’s the difference?

[jacb]

I was just watching a video on YouTube titled:
”The Pro's & Con's Of HCG On Cycle | Desensitisation | Testicular Volume | Semen Volume | Fertility”. Video Link

The speaker who appears to understand the subject much better than I do introduced HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotrophin) which he implied could be better than HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin) in certain cases.

I understand that it is possible to overstimulate the testis and suffer testicular atrophy even while on HCG.

Can someone please explain the differences between HCG and HMG and give examples where one might be preferable over the other. The speaker in the link simply went too fast and even a second viewing didn’t help. Do I understand that HMG effectively replaces both LH & FSH whilst HCG only works on the LH side?

Are both HMC and HCG affected by the Compounding Pharmacy ban in the USA?

PS Since posting the above, I have found an article on the Excelmale forum (posted be Nelson) called “Gonadotrophin (GrRH, FSH, HCG & HMG) Treatment in Male Infertility“. Quite and heavy (technical) read. Can anyone offer a user friendly summation?

@madman @Nelson Vergel @Vince

_________________

The key differences between HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotropin) and HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) are:

HMG is a combination of two hormones - Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH) and Luteinizing Hormone (LH). It is used to stimulate the ovaries to produce multiple eggs for fertility treatments like IVF.[1][2][5] HMG helps with follicle development and maturation.

In contrast, HCG acts similarly to LH and is used to trigger ovulation once the follicles are mature.[1][2][3] HCG is often used as a "trigger shot" after a course of FSH or HMG treatment to induce the final egg release.

While HMG stimulates the ovaries to produce eggs, HCG helps maintain pregnancy after fertilization by supporting the corpus luteum.[1][3] HCG is secreted by the placenta during pregnancy.

In summary, HMG is used for ovarian stimulation, while HCG is used to trigger ovulation and support early pregnancy.[1][2][5] They have complementary roles in fertility treatments, with HMG preparing the follicles and HCG inducing the final egg release.[1][3]

Citations:
[1] Hmg vs Hcg
[2] Hmg vs hcg
[3] A review of luteinising hormone and human chorionic gonadotropin when used in assisted reproductive technology
[4] Frontiers | Efficacy of Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH) Alone, FSH + Luteinizing Hormone, Human Menopausal Gonadotropin or FSH + Human Chorionic Gonadotropin on Assisted Reproductive Technology Outcomes in the “Personalized” Medicine Era: A Meta-analysis
[5] Gonadotropins (HMG & FSH) | The Fertility Center of Oregon

 

[madman]

I was just watching a video on YouTube titled:
”The Pro's & Con's Of HCG On Cycle | Desensitisation | Testicular Volume | Semen Volume | Fertility”. Video Link

The speaker who appears to understand the subject much better than I do introduced HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotrophin) which he implied could be better than HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin) in certain cases.

I understand that it is possible to overstimulate the testis and suffer testicular atrophy even while on HCG.

Can someone please explain the differences between HCG and HMG and give examples where one might be preferable over the other. The speaker in the link simply went too fast and even a second viewing didn’t help. Do I understand that HMG effectively replaces both LH & FSH whilst HCG only works on the LH side?

Are both HMC and HCG affected by the Compounding Pharmacy ban in the USA?

PS Since posting the above, I have found an article on the Excelmale forum (posted be Nelson) called “Gonadotrophin (GrRH, FSH, HCG & HMG) Treatment in Male Infertility“. Quite and heavy (technical) read. Can anyone offer a user friendly summation?

@madman @Nelson Vergel @Vince

Take home points here!


*Human menopausal gonadotropin contains both LH- and FSH-activity. However, a dose that provides adequate FSH activity does not maintain Leydig cell function because the LH activity is low. Thus a combination with hCG is required to achieve fertility

*Although hMG has both FSH and LH activity, FSH activity predominates, and LH activity is so low that fertility requires a combination of hCG and hMG.

*In some countries, a range of FSH formulations is currently accessible. FSH has traditionally been given in the form of hMG, obtained from postmenopausal women’s urine.

Restoring spermatogenesis in hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism

Hypogonadism is a deficiency in one of the testes’ two major functions: (a) testosterone secretion (endocrine function) and (b) spermatogenesis (reproductive function). The two types are known as primary (hypergonadotrophic) hypogonadism (testis failure) and secondary (hypogonadotrophic)...

www.excelmale.com

*The findings suggest that normal qualitative and quantitative sperm production is best maintained in the presence of both FSH- and LH-induced testosterone secretion. Human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG) in conjunction with FSH is a common regimen for inducing spermatogenesis

*Although hMG has both FSH and LH activity, FSH activity predominates, and LH activity is so low that fertility requires a combination of hCG and hMG

*More recently, highly pure urinary FSH preparations have been created, with higher specific activity than hMG. Recombinant human FSH formulations have greater purity and specific activity than any urinary preparation and no inherent LH activity

*Typically, hCG alone at a dose of 1000 IU on alternate days or twice weekly is usually used to start gonadotrophin therapy, with the dose titrated based on trough testosterone levels and testicular development

*Due to residual FSH secretion, spermatogenesis can be begun with hCG alone in most individuals with bigger testes at baseline

*Once there is a plateau in the response to hCG, which typically occurs at around 6 months, therapy with FSH (in one of the three forms described above) should be added at a dose of 75 IU on 3 days per week. If sperm output and testicular growth remain suboptimal, the dose of FSH can be gradually increased to 150 IU daily

Has anyone had success in restoring fertility with FSH?

Bit of backstory: I've been on TRT for about 5 years. Before starting TRT, we were able to become pregnant, however we lost that child. With that said, I know I didn't have any underlying issues before TRT. I'm 36 and wife just turned 37. In early 2022, I started taking blackmarket HMG from a...

www.excelmale.com

HCG + HMG Therapy Once a Week for Spermatogenesis in Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism

Gonadotropin Therapy Once a Week for Spermatogenesis in Hypogonadotropic Hypogonadism (2021) Wanlu Ma, MD, Jiangfeng Mao, MD, Min Nie, PhD, Xi Wang, MD,Junjie Zheng, MD, Zhaoxiang Liu, MD, Bingqing Yu, MD, Shuyu Xiong, MD, Ming Hao, MD, Yinjie Gao, MD, Wen Ji, MD, Qibin Huang, MD, Rui Zhang, MD...

www.excelmale.com

*Studies have confirmed that the combined therapy of human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG) and human menopausal gonadotropin (HMG), 2 or 3 times a week, had an overall success rate of 75% to 85% in achieving spermatogenesis.5-7 No guidelines on the regimens of gonadotropin therapy have been agreed upon. Typical doses for HCG vary from 500 to 2500 IU, whereas HMG varies from 75 to 225 IU two to three times a week.8-10

FSH and hCG dual therapy may result in the more rapid recovery of sperm to the ejaculate

024 Dual Therapy with rFSH and HCG Results in a Significantly Shorter Time to Return of Spermatogenesis than Combination HCG and Clomiphene (2021) K. Campbell, J. Sullivan, R. Valero Carrion, J. Kraus, B. Stocks, A. Lawrence, L. Lipshultz Introduction: The use of testosterone replacement...

www.excelmale.com

Conclusions

Our results reiterate that FSH in combination with hCG may be considered as an alternative to a combination of hCG and clomiphene in the treatment of testosterone-induced azoospermia. FSH and hCG dual therapy may result in the more rapid recovery of sperm to the ejaculate being three times faster in the FSH group. Additionally, patients who have failed dual therapy with hCG and clomiphene should be considered for subsequent FSH.

 

[madman]

I was just watching a video on YouTube titled:
”The Pro's & Con's Of HCG On Cycle | Desensitisation | Testicular Volume | Semen Volume | Fertility”. Video Link

The speaker who appears to understand the subject much better than I do introduced HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotrophin) which he implied could be better than HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin) in certain cases.

I understand that it is possible to overstimulate the testis and suffer testicular atrophy even while on HCG.

Can someone please explain the differences between HCG and HMG and give examples where one might be preferable over the other. The speaker in the link simply went too fast and even a second viewing didn’t help. Do I understand that HMG effectively replaces both LH & FSH whilst HCG only works on the LH side?

Are both HMC and HCG affected by the Compounding Pharmacy ban in the USA?

PS Since posting the above, I have found an article on the Excelmale forum (posted be Nelson) called “Gonadotrophin (GrRH, FSH, HCG & HMG) Treatment in Male Infertility“. Quite and heavy (technical) read. Can anyone offer a user friendly summation?

@madman @Nelson Vergel @Vince

Lots of misinformation is being spewed on gootube/numerous bro forums regarding gonadotropins!

Everyone needs to keep this in mind.


* It is currently unknown if long-term administration of HCG can lead to side effects such as gonadotropin resistance.

 

[Vince]

I was just watching a video on YouTube titled:
”The Pro's & Con's Of HCG On Cycle | Desensitisation | Testicular Volume | Semen Volume | Fertility”. Video Link

The speaker who appears to understand the subject much better than I do introduced HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotrophin) which he implied could be better than HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin) in certain cases.

I understand that it is possible to overstimulate the testis and suffer testicular atrophy even while on HCG.

Can someone please explain the differences between HCG and HMG and give examples where one might be preferable over the other. The speaker in the link simply went too fast and even a second viewing didn’t help. Do I understand that HMG effectively replaces both LH & FSH whilst HCG only works on the LH side?

Are both HMC and HCG affected by the Compounding Pharmacy ban in the USA?

PS Since posting the above, I have found an article on the Excelmale forum (posted be Nelson) called “Gonadotrophin (GrRH, FSH, HCG & HMG) Treatment in Male Infertility“. Quite and heavy (technical) read. Can anyone offer a user friendly summation?

@madman @Nelson Vergel @Vince

Not if you use a normal amount like 500 IU twice a week, three times a week or every other day. No need to cycle off.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Are both HMC and HCG affected by the Compounding Pharmacy ban in the USA?

Yes. And both are increasing in price.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Yes. And both are increasing in price.

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OUCH!!!!!

 

[granger]

im interested when they come out with FSH LH stimulating peptide/hormone...feel like would be more "natural" if had short half life. basically bypass clomid issues would be the hope one day injecting lady pee will be as rudementail as the guys who injected cadaver derived HGH..

I wouldn't be surprised if pharma has more recombinant in the pipeline, i mean ovitrelle needs to apply to make multi use bottles and would be able to charge less and absolutely destroy the market with no bottle neck of needing woman pee. who knows maybe they are the ones who are lobbying the gov about "compounded" hcg before bring it to market..

 

[Cataceous]

im interested when they come out with FSH LH stimulating peptide/hormone...feel like would be more "natural" if had short half life...

It's called gonadotropin-releasing hormone or GnRH. The drug name is gonadorelin, and it is bio-identical. It does have a short half-life, which is essential for proper function. Long half-life analogs are actually used to shut down the HPTA. The problem is that pulsatile delivery is necessary. In normal men pulses occur every 1-3 hours or so. Hypogonadism has been successfully treated with gonadorelin, but it requires a pump to deliver the pulses at reasonable intervals. Therefore it is a less practical treatment than the better known alternatives.

 

[madman]

I was just watching a video on YouTube titled:
”The Pro's & Con's Of HCG On Cycle | Desensitisation | Testicular Volume | Semen Volume | Fertility”. Video Link

The speaker who appears to understand the subject much better than I do introduced HMG (Human Menopausal Gonadotrophin) which he implied could be better than HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin) in certain cases.

I understand that it is possible to overstimulate the testis and suffer testicular atrophy even while on HCG.

Can someone please explain the differences between HCG and HMG and give examples where one might be preferable over the other. The speaker in the link simply went too fast and even a second viewing didn’t help. Do I understand that HMG effectively replaces both LH & FSH whilst HCG only works on the LH side?

Are both HMC and HCG affected by the Compounding Pharmacy ban in the USA?

PS Since posting the above, I have found an article on the Excelmale forum (posted be Nelson) called “Gonadotrophin (GrRH, FSH, HCG & HMG) Treatment in Male Infertility“. Quite and heavy (technical) read. Can anyone offer a user friendly summation?

@madman @Nelson Vergel @Vince

Single and multi‐dose pharmacology of recombinant and urinary hCG in men

1 | INTRODUCTION Gonadotrophin treatment to induce puberty, spermatogenesis, and fertility in men with congenital or acquired gonadotropin deficiency is based on treatment with human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG), aplacental heterodimeric glycoprotein hormone and natural, long‐acting analog of...

www.excelmale.com

*The lower serum testosterone shown by both products at high hCG doses most likely reflects the resistance of testicular testosterone production to hCG rather than desensitization to hCG




*In this real‐world therapeutic analysis, the time course of serum hCG and testosterone did not differ significantly between the hCG products, although an expected log‐linear decline of serum hCG over time was observed. The lower serum testosterone shown by both products at high hCG doses most likely reflects the resistance of testicular testosterone production to hCG rather than desensitization to hCG. This is because these higher hCG doses were only arrived at after individual upward dose titration of hCG in treated men whose serum testosterone was not normalized on standard hCG doses.16 As a result, these two hCG products at these standard doses tested can be considered pharmacologically interchangeable for the treatment of gonadotrophin‐deficient men

 

[Cataceous]

.... The lower serum testosterone shown by both products at high hCG doses most likely reflects the resistance of testicular testosterone production to hCG rather than desensitization to hCG. ...

This effect is discussed in this research.

... the semimechanistic models indicated that the production rate of testosterone increases in [the] presence of rhCG, but the increase does not asymptote to a maximum level but instead decreases at higher concentrations of rhCG ...​

​

... Last, the relationship of rhCG versus the production rate of testosterone is by means of a rather complex binding model, which is consistent with a two-site binding receptor with an effect proportional to one-site bound concentration.​

​

The binding model allows at least two interpretations: the receptor is either deactivated (i.e., stimulation of production rate decreases) or internalized (and stimulation of production rate ends) when more than one molecule binds to it. The study design did not allow separation of a concentration effect at the receptor level or receptor internalization (or a combination of the two), and it is questionable whether an in vivo study aimed at answering this point is feasible. One of the reviewers pointed out a third possibility: a refractory period before the alpha subunit of the G protein recombines with the beta-gamma portion.​

​

 

[vladgh 121]

Yes. And both are increasing in price.

View attachment 42285
View attachment 42286

Hello Nelson. Would you recommend injecting IM for Hmg or taking it subQ?

 

[vladgh 121]

Single and multi‐dose pharmacology of recombinant and urinary hCG in men

1 | INTRODUCTION Gonadotrophin treatment to induce puberty, spermatogenesis, and fertility in men with congenital or acquired gonadotropin deficiency is based on treatment with human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG), aplacental heterodimeric glycoprotein hormone and natural, long‐acting analog of...

www.excelmale.com

*The lower serum testosterone shown by both products at high hCG doses most likely reflects the resistance of testicular testosterone production to hCG rather than desensitization to hCG




*In this real‐world therapeutic analysis, the time course of serum hCG and testosterone did not differ significantly between the hCG products, although an expected log‐linear decline of serum hCG over time was observed. The lower serum testosterone shown by both products at high hCG doses most likely reflects the resistance of testicular testosterone production to hCG rather than desensitization to hCG. This is because these higher hCG doses were only arrived at after individual upward dose titration of hCG in treated men whose serum testosterone was not normalized on standard hCG doses.16 As a result, these two hCG products at these standard doses tested can be considered pharmacologically interchangeable for the treatment of gonadotrophin‐deficient men

Hello madman.
Should I inject Hmg subQ or IM ?
A lot of info about Hcg but can't find anything about Hmg.

 

[Vince]

You can inject hmg either Sub-Q or shallow IM. Both will work.