HELP with TEST/ HGH cycle!!

[saberx]

Hello everyone,

I have been on TRT for a number of years now and after speaking to a multiple endocrinologists and an anti-aging doctor, I have not been able to get a definitive answer on a hormone program that works. I understand that all bodies are different and require different dosages and I know that there is no single "cycle" for everyone, but is there no basic guideline?

I'm 43 years old, 6'1" tall and weight about 220lbs. I workout 3 times a week and eat as clean as possible.

My current cycle is:

Delatestryl Testosterone - 100mg/week (50mg 2x/week - Monday and Thursday)
Omnitrope HGH - 2iu (mon, tues, thurs, fri, sat) Injected in the morning on empty stomach
HCG - 250iu 2x/week (Tuesday and Friday)
DHEA 25mg daily
Arimidex .25mg 2x/week (recently increased from once a week)

As you can see i'm not doing anything crazy, but for some reason my Estradiol number is very high.

Estradiol 155 pmol/L on a scale of 0 to <157.

All other numbers are well within range.

So, the only changes that I have made to the cycle recently is that I have raised my HGH from 1iu to 2iu. This change was made about 3 month ago, but has resulted in some severely tender swollen nipples. In the last 2 weeks I have increased my arimidex to .25mg twice a week from once a week to try and combat this problem. Prior to increasing my HGH, my Estradiol was always between 40 and 50 pmol/L.

What I can't understand is how its possible to have such a drastic side effect from just increasing HGH by 1iu? So, my questions are:

1. Does anyone have any experience with a test/hgh combo cycle and do my dosages look normal?
2. Is there any obvious error that i'm making and should I be taking or not taking any one thing?

Again, I have only increased my Arimidex a few weeks ago so I know that it will take some time to work, but I have always had a hard time understanding why I would need to take something to keep something else in range and why not just reduce what causing the problem. In the past I have had a very hard time using Arimidex and shutting down sex drive, etc. so I usually try to steer clear of it or use very minimal dosage.

As a past heavy cycle user (more than 7 years ago) I can't remember having such swollen nipples, even with 1000mg of test weekly. Now, it seems more difficult just to keep my body balanced.

The main reason why I increased my HGH dosage is because I felt like after almost 2 years of using only 1iu I wasn't getting anything out of it, except spending a lot of money. Since increasing to 2iu of HGH my strength has gone up, even though every doctor has told me that 2iu of HGH will give you no strength gains only cosmetic benefits over time.

Anyway sorry for the rambling and I greatly appreciate any help that you may give me on my journey to find balance, strength and harmony.

Thank you,
Sab

 

[Vince Carter]

Its not a cycle and we don't use that term here.

HCG stims the testes and any aromatization that occurs in the testicular environment an AI like Anastrozole/Arimidex is much less effective in that environment. Many guys get no tangible benefit from HCG, if you're not, or the added 100iu is causing you problems...it's pretty simple...reduce the dosage. There are a few guys here that do not use HCG either...you'll have to decide if it provides no tangile benefit and otherwise just complicates your treatment...then why use it?

 

[saberx]

I know it's not a cycle I just couldn't think of the word 'protocol' at that moment. I have been using HCG mainly to prevent testicular shrinkage, but am not particularly attached to any one thing in the protocol. I have also keep using HCG for the possibility that i may one day want children, but that's looking like more of a pipe dream as i get older. I have played with the idea of running just test and hcg like I used to and also thought about running just HGH to see what that does. What does your ideal protocol look like? How is it working for you? Your age?

 

[CoastWatcher]

I'm one of the members here who gets nothing from Hcg. Ok, that's not quite honest or accurate. I presume my testicles are still vital, they seem reasonable in size. I've been on and off Hcg and - other than diminished testicle size - notice nothing when I abandon it other than diminished scrotal volume. But I'm a good-citizen in the land of TRT and use it for the time being (having read the literature and chatted about it with my doctor). In all other respects, I'm delighted with my protocol (16mg/daily, no AI, and of course Hcg).

 

[saberx]

Hey CoastWatcher,

Thanks for the reply. I'm happy that your protocol is working for you. I'm trying to find a nice balance between staying in shape, having energy and having little to no side effects, but its a challenge and I've been doing this for a number of years now. I fell like I should try experimenting again, but always hate that feeling of fluctuating hormones and slumping sex drive. Fear of the unknown, I guess. :/

 

[madman]

Hello everyone,

I have been on TRT for a number of years now and after speaking to a multiple endocrinologists and an anti-aging doctor, I have not been able to get a definitive answer on a hormone program that works. I understand that all bodies are different and require different dosages and I know that there is no single "cycle" for everyone, but is there no basic guideline?

I'm 43 years old, 6'1" tall and weight about 220lbs. I workout 3 times a week and eat as clean as possible.

My current cycle is:

Delatestryl Testosterone - 100mg/week (50mg 2x/week - Monday and Thursday)
Omnitrope HGH - 2iu (mon, tues, thurs, fri, sat) Injected in the morning on empty stomach
HCG - 250iu 2x/week (Tuesday and Friday)
DHEA 25mg daily
Arimidex .25mg 2x/week (recently increased from once a week)

As you can see i'm not doing anything crazy, but for some reason my Estradiol number is very high.

Estradiol 155 pmol/L on a scale of 0 to <157.

All other numbers are well within range.

So, the only changes that I have made to the cycle recently is that I have raised my HGH from 1iu to 2iu. This change was made about 3 month ago, but has resulted in some severely tender swollen nipples. In the last 2 weeks I have increased my arimidex to .25mg twice a week from once a week to try and combat this problem. Prior to increasing my HGH, my Estradiol was always between 40 and 50 pmol/L.

What I can't understand is how its possible to have such a drastic side effect from just increasing HGH by 1iu? So, my questions are:

1. Does anyone have any experience with a test/hgh combo cycle and do my dosages look normal?
2. Is there any obvious error that i'm making and should I be taking or not taking any one thing?

Again, I have only increased my Arimidex a few weeks ago so I know that it will take some time to work, but I have always had a hard time understanding why I would need to take something to keep something else in range and why not just reduce what causing the problem. In the past I have had a very hard time using Arimidex and shutting down sex drive, etc. so I usually try to steer clear of it or use very minimal dosage.

As a past heavy cycle user (more than 7 years ago) I can't remember having such swollen nipples, even with 1000mg of test weekly. Now, it seems more difficult just to keep my body balanced.

The main reason why I increased my HGH dosage is because I felt like after almost 2 years of using only 1iu I wasn't getting anything out of it, except spending a lot of money. Since increasing to 2iu of HGH my strength has gone up, even though every doctor has told me that 2iu of HGH will give you no strength gains only cosmetic benefits over time.

Anyway sorry for the rambling and I greatly appreciate any help that you may give me on my journey to find balance, strength and harmony.

Thank you,
Sab

Do you have labs to post on your current protocol?

I think the test you had done for your e2 is the standard assay and is meant for women as it tends to over estimate e2 in men.

You need to get the estradiol (sensitive assay) as it is far more accurate and meant for men that way you will know where your e2 really sits.

Are you aware that the estradiol (sensitive assay) is available in certain provinces in Canada?

Where you experiencing any other side effects?

Excess (rhGH) can cause fluid retention but your doses are low.....................hcg (human chorionic gonadotropin) can definitely cause elevated e2 in in some due to the increase in ITT (intra -testicular testosterone) and aromatization in the testes.

 

[saberx]

Thanks for the reply madman,

Dont have the labs handy at the moment.

Not only do I have, what I would consider bad gyno, but my sex drive is slowly diminishing and my my temper is rising. I do feel sluggish and have a hard time getting out of bed in the morning.

To a less extent I have felt similar side effects in my past, which I believe were from the excessive steroid cycles, but as you said, all of my doses are very low now. I just want to maintain a regular life. My steroid days are well behind me now.

It occurred to me today that the last time i increased my HGH to 2iu from 1iu I started to have the same problem, but if I remember correctly, I reduced it as soon as I noticed problems.

This time around I decided to keep going as see if my body would balance itself out, but unfortunately, I have only had to increase my Arimidex amount.

As i have already said, my ultimate goal is to be lean and fit. I'm not looking to add size. I don't think its my genetics because I have managed to get myself quite lean in the past, and while I know age is a factor, I refuse to believe that is the only reason why I can't get lean. My diet is composed of mainly chicken, fish, rice and vegetables both raw and steamed. My only conclusion, at this time, is that this is not the right protocol for me.

Sab

 

[Jack Newell]

I believe Sab is speaking of HGH (Human Growth Hormone) not HCG. I'm on TRT (.27cc 2x weekly) and 2IU HGH 5x weekly for about 5 years with great results and no excess estradiol symptoms. HGH at 2 IU daily is a great fat burner and should not cause side effects till maybe above 4IU daily dosages. Then you will see some water retention and stiff joints. High estradiol is not a side effect of HGH. I use a ratio of TT/Sens.Estradiol (9-27) instead of Sens. Estradiol results by itself. I do not use HCG or arimidex.

 

[madman]

I believe Sab is speaking of HGH (Human Growth Hormone) not HCG. I'm on TRT (.27cc 2x weekly) and 2IU HGH 5x weekly for about 5 years with great results and no excess estradiol symptoms. HGH at 2 IU daily is a great fat burner and should not cause side effects till maybe above 4IU daily dosages. Then you will see some water retention and stiff joints. High estradiol is not a side effect of HGH. I use a ratio of TT/Sens.Estradiol (9-27) instead of Sens. Estradiol results by itself. I do not use HCG or arimidex.

I was well aware he is speaking about rHGH.

Read the last sentence of my 1st post..."excess rHGH can cause fluid retention but your doses are low" than I go on to mention my thought regarding hcg!

 

[lowe2sucks]

if you are having problems never try to take more meds to combat side effects you will mess up i guarantee... drop gh to 1ui daily, stop adex, stop dhea, reduce testo to 40mg twice a week and give it few months eventually you will feel right