I see that Defy Medical is selling Ibuamoren (MK-677) on their online patient store. We have a lot of guys with Defy Medical here so I am curious if any of you have tried this yet, and if so, what do you think?
Defy is selling Ibutamoren (MK-677) - anybody try it yet?
- Thread starter ERO
- Start date
I've tried MK-677 in the past, though not from Defy. I noticed a modest increase in hunger, though not the debiliating hunger some complain of on the internet. Sleep quality was moderately improved. Some strength increase, but nothing all that significant. It caused fairly significant edema in my ankles, which I just couldn't handle. I don't know if that's a normal side effect (though I think water retention in general is), but it happened to me and the MK was definitely the cause. I couldn't keep going with it because of that. I was taking 25mg/day, at night. Perhaps a lower dose wouldn't have caused it, but I just discontinued it entirely. I would consider giving it another shot at a lower dose because the sleep and strength effects, while subtle, were nice.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
Is this the same substance that is being sold on Amazon and being called Mk-677 Nutrobal 1000 Mg or another one is Ibutamoren 30 MG / ML high dosage 99%+ purity?
If anyone has used this, did they monitor their IGF-1 Level to see if it went up?
If anyone has used this, did they monitor their IGF-1 Level to see if it went up?
Likely yes, but if you are on TRT that won't matter. Your natural T is no longer a factor.
littlemanb
Member
I tried 10 mg a day for 1 year..My appetite went crazy..I did notice a slightly better sleep but I found it very hard to control my appetite (can be a side effect for some)..I usually keep my weight around 165-170 pounds but on the Ibutamoren I went up to 186 pounds! I do think it helped my joints and plantar fasciitis on both feet (reason why I started to take it). No water retention and I didn’t notice any muscle increase in the gym. I have stopped taking it for two months now and I am able to control my diet much more easily.i am actually back down to 173 pounds from 186 pounds prior to quitting..
So Nelson is right..it is very difficult to lose weight if you are on the real stuff..I think if you have issues gaining weight (hardgainer) MK 677 would be a fantastic tool as it works off your ghrellin hormone which stimulates appetite..I wish I had it in my 20s, 30 years ago! I’ve also tried Osterine, 10 mg, for two cycles of two months each..I’m just about finished my second cycle..I have noticed very good results in my weight training and how I feel.
anyways, I hope that helps for what it’s worth!
regards.
So Nelson is right..it is very difficult to lose weight if you are on the real stuff..I think if you have issues gaining weight (hardgainer) MK 677 would be a fantastic tool as it works off your ghrellin hormone which stimulates appetite..I wish I had it in my 20s, 30 years ago! I’ve also tried Osterine, 10 mg, for two cycles of two months each..I’m just about finished my second cycle..I have noticed very good results in my weight training and how I feel.
anyways, I hope that helps for what it’s worth!
regards.
I just got my RX filled from Defy and am looking forward to starting. I had ran this before from a trusted UGL with very good results.
A few pointers from my experience
- first – always take it at night – or before bedtime. Taking it in the daytime can cause extreme hunger, and potential lethargy- depending on the dose.
- speaking of dosing - 12.5 mg is plenty. Do not jump right into the 25 mg per day that was done in the research study. If you start with that high amount – you will get bloating – and more lethargy. Running at 12.5 mg at night will cause virtually zero sides.
- in terms of IGF-1 increase - 25mg will cause a 60 to 80 percent increase. 12.5 mg will be half that. My natural IGF-1 is around 150 ng/dL. 12.5 mg puts me up around 200 right in the sweet spot (target range is 180-220)
- this product is wonderful for the joints. This is the only thing in the world that eases my achy joints and actually stops my knees from creaking. Honestly it’s literally a wonder drug when it comes to joint and tendon recovery.
- running it at the recommended dose – 12.5 mg will not lead to much weight gain – as long as you moderately watch your diet. Yes, you will gain some weight at first, mostly a little bit of water weight – but after a few weeks you will settle in and maybe net 3 -5 pounds – but you could easily go more or less if needed. If you run 25 mg a day – I’ve seen people put on 10 pounds in a week.
- you may see a very small uptick in glucose – maybe up to five points – which is nothing to worry about.
- you will get the best sleep of your life with this. The increase in IGF-I causes unbelievably realistic dreams – more vivid than I have had since I was probably a teenager.
- The best part is that this product is not suppressive – it only stimulates your pituitary to produce more growth hormone and idoes not suppress as if taking exogenous growth hormone. This is significant – this means you could stop at any time and you go right back to where you were before. ( think of it as working like Clomid does: it stimulates the system to produce more).
- it goes great with TRT. The fat free mass producing effect combined with the joint healing yields some solid gains if you are into lifting.
I am happy that Defy has this great product I’ve always had success in dealing with them and would highly recommend them to anyone.
A few pointers from my experience
- first – always take it at night – or before bedtime. Taking it in the daytime can cause extreme hunger, and potential lethargy- depending on the dose.
- speaking of dosing - 12.5 mg is plenty. Do not jump right into the 25 mg per day that was done in the research study. If you start with that high amount – you will get bloating – and more lethargy. Running at 12.5 mg at night will cause virtually zero sides.
- in terms of IGF-1 increase - 25mg will cause a 60 to 80 percent increase. 12.5 mg will be half that. My natural IGF-1 is around 150 ng/dL. 12.5 mg puts me up around 200 right in the sweet spot (target range is 180-220)
- this product is wonderful for the joints. This is the only thing in the world that eases my achy joints and actually stops my knees from creaking. Honestly it’s literally a wonder drug when it comes to joint and tendon recovery.
- running it at the recommended dose – 12.5 mg will not lead to much weight gain – as long as you moderately watch your diet. Yes, you will gain some weight at first, mostly a little bit of water weight – but after a few weeks you will settle in and maybe net 3 -5 pounds – but you could easily go more or less if needed. If you run 25 mg a day – I’ve seen people put on 10 pounds in a week.
- you may see a very small uptick in glucose – maybe up to five points – which is nothing to worry about.
- you will get the best sleep of your life with this. The increase in IGF-I causes unbelievably realistic dreams – more vivid than I have had since I was probably a teenager.
- The best part is that this product is not suppressive – it only stimulates your pituitary to produce more growth hormone and idoes not suppress as if taking exogenous growth hormone. This is significant – this means you could stop at any time and you go right back to where you were before. ( think of it as working like Clomid does: it stimulates the system to produce more).
- it goes great with TRT. The fat free mass producing effect combined with the joint healing yields some solid gains if you are into lifting.
I am happy that Defy has this great product I’ve always had success in dealing with them and would highly recommend them to anyone.
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
JimGainz
Excellent update! Thanks for sharing. I agree with you!
Nelson
Excellent update! Thanks for sharing. I agree with you!
Nelson
Tommy Wall
Member
I would like to try this but this is my concern eventhouhg I´m not diabetic but could be due to my statin meds.
- MK-677 may lower insulin sensitivity and is not appropriate for someone who is already diabetic.
It’s minimal from what I read in the research study. If you are not a diabetic I wouldn’t worry. Also, fwiw the last time I ran this and had bloods done my fasting glucose didn’t move at all. Keep the dose to 12.5 mg and you should have no issues. Also, you mentioned you are on statins - there should be no issues there at all either. (I am on statins as well).
Sean Mosher
Member
Great review and information.
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for sharing!
Definitely for gaining muscle but for fat loss -‘you would take it during a cut / diet to preserve muscle but it is not a fat loss agent on its own.
And yes, both ipamorelin and Ibutamoren are growth hormone secretagogues but Ibutamoren is oral rather than an injection, and probably a lot cheaper.
madman
Super Moderator
One will gain muscle but do not expect anything extreme as it is not going to pack on size.
Even when looking at some thing such as recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH) in low doses it will not result in significant muscle gains and even when used in higher doses significant muscle gain is only seen when rhGH is combined with high doses of testosterone as there is a synergistic effect.
As far as MK-77 how much of the muscle gain is related to increased intra-cellular water stores as oppose to increased actin/myosin.
As we know muscle cell is roughly 70% water and as much as intra-cellular water stores contribute to increased size of the overall muscle what we are truly after is increases in new proteins (actin/myosin).
Here is a RCT in older men: https://www.smr.jsexmed.org/article/S2050-0521(17)30032-X/fulltext
Effects of an Oral Ghrelin Mimetic on Body Composition and Clinical Outcomes in Healthy Older Adults: A Randomized, Controlled Trial
Healthy elderly individuals who took the ghrelin mimetic MK-677 experienced a sustained increase in the amplitude of pulsatile GH secretion and IGF-I to levels seen in young adults. The likely mechanism was activation of the ghrelin receptor by MK-677, with feedback by IGF-I preventing excess GH production. MK-677 increased fat-free mass (FFM) by 1.6 kg relative to placebo. To provide perspective, an adult's average lifetime loss of FFM is ~ 5.5 kg (3). The concomitant increase in intracellular water, which reflects body cell mass (25), is the likely mechanism for the increase in FFM.
Ghrelin stimulates GH secretion, but it also has effects that are not attributable to increased GH. In this study, a ghrelin mimetic transiently increased appetite, a novel effect that might counteract physiological anorexia, which is one cause of weight loss in the elderly (26, 27), Ghrelin increases fat stores, unlike GH which is lipolytic. We found that body weight increased more after MK-677 than placebo. Although total fat mass increased in both groups, limb fat and limb lean mass increased more with MK-677 than placebo. Surprisingly, thigh muscle cross-sectional area did not increase, although the study is not powered to detect small but potentially important differences with the imprecise single slice CT method that we used. GH reduces abdominal visceral fat (AVF) in GH-deficient adults (28) and abdominally obese, postmenopausal women (29), but not normal elderly subjects (30). Despite increasing GH levels, MK-677 did not affect AVF, perhaps because its combined orexigenic and adipogenic effects counteracted the lipolytic effects of enhanced GH. Finally, although MK-677 did not reduce AVF, it did reduce LDL levels at 12 months, an effect not seen with GH in normal elderly subjects (8).
Even when looking at some thing such as recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH) in low doses it will not result in significant muscle gains and even when used in higher doses significant muscle gain is only seen when rhGH is combined with high doses of testosterone as there is a synergistic effect.
As far as MK-77 how much of the muscle gain is related to increased intra-cellular water stores as oppose to increased actin/myosin.
As we know muscle cell is roughly 70% water and as much as intra-cellular water stores contribute to increased size of the overall muscle what we are truly after is increases in new proteins (actin/myosin).
Here is a RCT in older men: https://www.smr.jsexmed.org/article/S2050-0521(17)30032-X/fulltext
Effects of an Oral Ghrelin Mimetic on Body Composition and Clinical Outcomes in Healthy Older Adults: A Randomized, Controlled Trial
Healthy elderly individuals who took the ghrelin mimetic MK-677 experienced a sustained increase in the amplitude of pulsatile GH secretion and IGF-I to levels seen in young adults. The likely mechanism was activation of the ghrelin receptor by MK-677, with feedback by IGF-I preventing excess GH production. MK-677 increased fat-free mass (FFM) by 1.6 kg relative to placebo. To provide perspective, an adult's average lifetime loss of FFM is ~ 5.5 kg (3). The concomitant increase in intracellular water, which reflects body cell mass (25), is the likely mechanism for the increase in FFM.
Ghrelin stimulates GH secretion, but it also has effects that are not attributable to increased GH. In this study, a ghrelin mimetic transiently increased appetite, a novel effect that might counteract physiological anorexia, which is one cause of weight loss in the elderly (26, 27), Ghrelin increases fat stores, unlike GH which is lipolytic. We found that body weight increased more after MK-677 than placebo. Although total fat mass increased in both groups, limb fat and limb lean mass increased more with MK-677 than placebo. Surprisingly, thigh muscle cross-sectional area did not increase, although the study is not powered to detect small but potentially important differences with the imprecise single slice CT method that we used. GH reduces abdominal visceral fat (AVF) in GH-deficient adults (28) and abdominally obese, postmenopausal women (29), but not normal elderly subjects (30). Despite increasing GH levels, MK-677 did not affect AVF, perhaps because its combined orexigenic and adipogenic effects counteracted the lipolytic effects of enhanced GH. Finally, although MK-677 did not reduce AVF, it did reduce LDL levels at 12 months, an effect not seen with GH in normal elderly subjects (8).
Last edited:
madman
Super Moderator
https://www.smr.jsexmed.org/article/S2050-0521(17)30032-X/fulltext
.....
Name
Ibutamoren (MK-0677, L-163,191)27, 69
Oral availability
>60%
Half-life Benefits
Reversal of nitrogen wasting,48 functional lower extremity improvement post hip fracture,50, 51 increase in FFM56, 58 decreased LDL,58 longer REM sleep and shorter sleep latency62
Side effects
Transient increase in cortisol and prolactin,48, 56 musculoskeletal pain and fluid retention,49, 50, 58 increase in insulin insensitivity,50, 51, 56, 58, 65 transient increase in appetite58
.....
Name
Ibutamoren (MK-0677, L-163,191)27, 69
Oral availability
>60%
Half-life Benefits
Reversal of nitrogen wasting,48 functional lower extremity improvement post hip fracture,50, 51 increase in FFM56, 58 decreased LDL,58 longer REM sleep and shorter sleep latency62
Side effects
Transient increase in cortisol and prolactin,48, 56 musculoskeletal pain and fluid retention,49, 50, 58 increase in insulin insensitivity,50, 51, 56, 58, 65 transient increase in appetite58
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
You all seem to be referencing Ibutamoren Mesylate capsules, but Defy also sells Ipamorelin 15mg vial injectable.
Has anyone tried the injectable, and how much is injected, since each vial seems to be 15mg. Not sure what 15mg means in this case.
Systemlord
Member
I'm on Ipamorelin for about a little more than a week and have been injecting every night before bed, I inject 15 units using an insulin syringe SQ in the belly. I chose Ipamorelin to avoid the excess hunger some get on the oral method. I was told I could feel something as early as 3 weeks.
DragonBits
Well-Known Member
So if I read this correctly, one unit is 0.01 ml, and 15 units is 0.15 ml, thus one vial would last 100 days at a rate of 15 units a day. Which in terms of money is 1.65 a day.
I assume you aren't feeling hungry, though those taking an oral dose seem to imply that taking 25mg a day will make you gain weight while taking 12.5mg a day will only have a small effect on hunger.
Now I don't know how an oral dose of 12.5mg compares to an injection of 15 units.
I think one way to compare both methods is to see how your IGF-1 and weight is affected.
One report on this thread was that 12.5 oral results in a 30-40% increase in IGF-1 while 25mg results in a 60-80% increase.
I assume you aren't feeling hungry, though those taking an oral dose seem to imply that taking 25mg a day will make you gain weight while taking 12.5mg a day will only have a small effect on hunger.
Now I don't know how an oral dose of 12.5mg compares to an injection of 15 units.
I think one way to compare both methods is to see how your IGF-1 and weight is affected.
One report on this thread was that 12.5 oral results in a 30-40% increase in IGF-1 while 25mg results in a 60-80% increase.
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