Big Pharma vs Compounded T Comparison

[antelopers]

I decided to run a comparison between empowers compounded cypionate vs pfizers cypionate. I ran each for 12 weeks at 70mg e3.5d with no other ancillaries and the same exact supplement regimen.

Pfizer: 1268 ng/dl
Empower: 979 ng/dl

Sensitive estradiol was higher on the Pfizer as well.

Pfizer: 48
Empower: 34

Take from this what you will. I've had a very similar result comparing the two in the past. I'm not sure what the difference is, but for me, Pfizer is either significantly more potent or somehow staying in my system longer.

 

[swoops36]

I have similar results (without the corresponding lab work), but just feel better on Pharma T. The thing that bugs me about compounded is the vial is never filled consistently. One 5mL bottle had 6.4mL, one had 4.8mL. If that’s off, can the concentration be off too? My 1mL Westward bottles have 1.2mL in them every time.

 

[Joey786]

I’ve had the same experience. Compounded test has resulted in lower test levels when compared to pharmaceutical brands. I dont use compounded anymore.

 

[mairomaster]

Although blood results are interesting, it will be very useful if somebody can send some testosterone samples to a special lab for content analysis. If both products contain Test C, I would guess the concentrasation would be different if the results are so different, i.e. one overdoseda and one underdosed. In theory different oil can lead to slightly different levels I guess, but I doubt the difference will be as big as 30%. Obviously there is a lot of variance with blood testing as well to be an accurate measurement of the quality of the product.

 

[Vince]

I decided to run a comparison between empowers compounded cypionate vs pfizers cypionate. I ran each for 12 weeks at 70mg e3.5d with no other ancillaries and the same exact supplement regimen.

Pfizer: 1268 ng/dl
Empower: 979 ng/dl

Sensitive estradiol was higher on the Pfizer as well.

Pfizer: 48
Empower: 34

Take from this what you will. I've had a very similar result comparing the two in the past. I'm not sure what the difference is, but for me, Pfizer is either significantly more potent or somehow staying in my system longer.

Did both vials of testosterone use the same oil?

 

[DorianGray]

..it will be very useful if somebody can send some testosterone samples to a special lab for content analysis...

I strongly believe in having things tested. If someone knows of competent labs that do such testing, please let me know.

 

[antelopers]

Although blood results are interesting, it will be very useful if somebody can send some testosterone samples to a special lab for content analysis. If both products contain Test C, I would guess the concentrasation would be different if the results are so different, i.e. one overdoseda and one underdosed. In theory different oil can lead to slightly different levels I guess, but I doubt the difference will be as big as 30%. Obviously there is a lot of variance with blood testing as well to be an accurate measurement of the quality of the product.

Did both vials of testosterone use the same oil?

The oils were different and this is my suspicion, because I can't think of any other reason besides an improperly dosed product. Based on my results, if they were both dosed properly, I'd expect that the compounded test which is in grapeseed clears my system much more quickly than the cottonseed in Pfizer. This is my third time comparing the 2 at the same doses, and the difference is always about 30 percent.

 

[antelopers]

I strongly believe in having things tested. If someone knows of competent labs that do such testing, please let me know.

I'd be willing to send and pay for samples to a lab like this as well.

 

[fifty]

I would chip in for testing too if someone wants to spearhead this.

 

[Vince]

The oils were different and this is my suspicion, because I can't think of any other reason besides an improperly dosed product. Based on my results, if they were both dosed properly, I'd expect that the compounded test which is in grapeseed clears my system much more quickly than the cottonseed in Pfizer. This is my third time comparing the 2 at the same doses, and the difference is always about 30 percent.

That was my thought also. The thicker cottonseed oil, probably stays in the body longer, then the grapeseed oil or sesame seed oil. Personally I do not like cottonseed oil. The chemicals they use on Cotton it's terrible for human consumption. Hopefully none of that is in the oil.

 

[Vince]

Nonoils known to be toxic that may be found in cottonseed oils include gossypol, aflatoxin, and cyclopropenoid fatty acids (CPFA). Toxic heavy metal and/or polychlorinated biphenyl (PCB) or other pesticide contamination is also possible. Cottonseed Oil was nontoxic in acute oral toxicity studies in rats.

National Center for Biotechnology Information › pub...
Final report on the safety assessment of Hydrogenated ...

 

[madman]

Did both vials of testosterone use the same oil?

The carrier oil (vehiculum) used in pharma grade T cyp is cottonseed whereas the compounded by Empower contains grapeseed.

Highly doubtful the difference in viscosity between the oils would have a large impact on the absorption/release of T from the oily depot formed after injection and even than excipients such as benzyl alcohol are added which reduces the viscosity of the lipid carrier and/or increases solubility.

When doing a true comparison as long as the strength of both preparations was the same per ml, injection volume (oil) was the same let alone using the same injection method (strictly sub-q or strictly IM), same injection frequency and using the same injection sites than there should not be a difference between testosterone levels achieved.

If a true comparison was done and blood work resulted in showing a drastic difference in testosterone levels than most likely the compounded T was underdosed.

The aliphatic ester side-chain length would be the main driver controlling the release rate.
.




The most widely used testosterone formulation for many decades has been the intramuscular injection of testosterone esters, formed by 17b-esterification of testosterone with fatty acids of various aliphatic and/or aromatic chain lengths, injected in a vegetable oil vehicle. This depot product relies on the retarded release of the testosterone ester from the oil vehicle injection depot because esters undergo rapid hydrolysis by ubiquitous esterases to liberate free testosterone into the circulation. The pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of androgen esters is therefore primarily determined by ester side-chain length, the volume of oil vehicle, and site of injection via hydrophobic physicochemical partitioning of the androgen ester between the hydrophobic oil vehicle and the aqueous extracellular fluid.

 

[antelopers]

The carrier oil (vehiculum) used in pharma grade T cyp is cottonseed whereas the compounded by Empower contains grapeseed.

Highly doubtful the difference in viscosity between the oils would have a large impact on the absorption/release of T from the oily depot formed after injection and even than excipients such as benzyl alcohol are added which reduces the viscosity of the lipid carrier and/or increases solubility.

When doing a true comparison as long as the strength of both preparations was the same per ml, injection volume (oil) was the same let alone using the same injection method (strictly sub-q or strictly IM), same injection frequency and using the same injection sites than there should not be a difference between testosterone levels achieved.

If a true comparison was done and blood work resulted in showing a drastic difference in testosterone levels than most likely the compounded T was underdosed.

The aliphatic ester side-chain length would be the main driver controlling the release rate.
.




The most widely used testosterone formulation for many decades has been the intramuscular injection of testosterone esters, formed by 17b-esterification of testosterone with fatty acids of various aliphatic and/or aromatic chain lengths, injected in a vegetable oil vehicle. This depot product relies on the retarded release of the testosterone ester from the oil vehicle injection depot because esters undergo rapid hydrolysis by ubiquitous esterases to liberate free testosterone into the circulation. The pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of androgen esters is therefore primarily determined by ester side-chain length, the volume of oil vehicle, and site of injection via hydrophobic physicochemical partitioning of the androgen ester between the hydrophobic oil vehicle and the aqueous extracellular fluid.

Appreciate the detailed response. I've made a comparison 3 times throughout my trt experience, and all 3 times the compounded was lower. Empower has a good reputation, so this is surprising.

 

[Cataceous]

The best way to make such a comparison is by splitting into daily injections. With cypionate this mostly eliminates effects of variations in half-life. Even with EOD dosing I've had predictable dose-response behavior across compounded and name-brand testosterone esters (cypionate and enanthate).

 

[madman]

That was my thought also. The thicker cottonseed oil, probably stays in the body longer, then the grapeseed oil or sesame seed oil. Personally I do not like cottonseed oil. The chemicals they use on Cotton it's terrible for human consumption. Hopefully none of that is in the oil.

Regardless of the carrier oil used they are all highly refined/purified.

Even then most men on trt are using 200mg/ml strength T formulations and seeing as the most commonly prescribed doses are in the range of 100-200 mg/week the amount of the carrier oil one is injecting weekly is minuscule.

As far as many stating cottonseed oil is more viscous and harder to inject do understand that although grapeseed oil is less viscous and may seem easier to inject when using a 27-31 gauge insulin syringe that benzyl alcohol is added to pharma-grade T-cyp which reduces the viscosity of the oil.

Top it off with the fact that slightly warming the vial before drawing will make it much easier to pass through a smaller diameter needle.

Many tend to act as if cottonseed oil is to difficult to draw/inject when using an insulin syringe.

When I first started trt I was prescribed pharma-grade T-cyp (Depo-Testosterone) 100mg/ml strength and unfortunately, the 200mg/ml strength is not available in Canada.

My protocol was 100mg/week sub-q.

I was injecting 1ml of the oily solution using a fixed insulin syringe 28 gauge and never had any issue when drawing/injecting the oil subcutaneously.


.

 

[madman]

Appreciate the detailed response. I've made a comparison 3 times throughout my trt experience, and all 3 times the compounded was lower. Empower has a good reputation, so this is surprising.

Definitely

It just seems odd that many others have experienced the same but whether they truly maintained the same consistency between protocols is hard to say.

 

[antelopers]

The best way to make such a comparison is by splitting into daily injections. With cypionate this mostly eliminates effects of variations in half-life. Even with EOD dosing I've had predictable dose-response behavior across compounded and name-brand testosterone esters (cypionate and enanthate).

That would be interesting to see. The closest injection schedule I've compared on was e3d.

 

[antelopers]

Regardless of the carrier oil used they are all highly refined/purified.

Even then most men on trt are using 200mg/ml strength T formulations and seeing as the most commonly prescribed doses are in the range of 100-200 mg/week the amount of the carrier oil one is injecting weekly is minuscule.

As far as many stating cottonseed oil is more viscous and harder to inject do understand that although grapeseed oil is less viscous and may seem easier to inject when using a 27-31 gauge insulin syringe that benzyl alcohol is added to pharma-grade T-cyp which reduces the viscosity of the oil.

Top it off with the fact that slightly warming the vial before drawing will make it much easier to pass through a smaller diameter needle.

Many tend to act as if cottonseed oil is to difficult to draw/inject when using an insulin syringe.

When I first started trt I was prescribed pharma-grade T-cyp (Depo-Testosterone) 100mg/ml strength and unfortunately, the 200mg/ml strength is not available in Canada.

My protocol was 100mg/week sub-q.

I was injecting 1ml of the oily solution using a fixed insulin syringe 28 gauge and never had any issue when drawing/injecting the oil subcutaneously.


.

I can second this, using a 28g, cottonseed oil is a little slower but isn't too difficult to draw at all.

 

[Vince]

Regardless of the carrier oil used they are all highly refined/purified.

Even then most men on trt are using 200mg/ml strength T formulations and seeing as the most commonly prescribed doses are in the range of 100-200 mg/week the amount of the carrier oil one is injecting weekly is minuscule.

As far as many stating cottonseed oil is more viscous and harder to inject do understand that although grapeseed oil is less viscous and may seem easier to inject when using a 27-31 gauge insulin syringe that benzyl alcohol is added to pharma-grade T-cyp which reduces the viscosity of the oil.

Top it off with the fact that slightly warming the vial before drawing will make it much easier to pass through a smaller diameter needle.

Many tend to act as if cottonseed oil is to difficult to draw/inject when using an insulin syringe.

When I first started trt I was prescribed pharma-grade T-cyp (Depo-Testosterone) 100mg/ml strength and unfortunately, the 200mg/ml strength is not available in Canada.

My protocol was 100mg/week sub-q.

I was injecting 1ml of the oily solution using a fixed insulin syringe 28 gauge and never had any issue when drawing/injecting the oil subcutaneously.


.

That was one of my stipulations before starting trt. I wouldn’t inject myself with cottonseed oil. Just the thought, turns my stomach. If it was proven safe, I still think I couldn’t do it. It would be like eating potato chips, made with cottonseed oil.

 

[Acer97]

I decided to run a comparison between empowers compounded cypionate vs pfizers cypionate. I ran each for 12 weeks at 70mg e3.5d with no other ancillaries and the same exact supplement regimen.

Pfizer: 1268 ng/dl
Empower: 979 ng/dl

Sensitive estradiol was higher on the Pfizer as well.

Pfizer: 48
Empower: 34

Take from this what you will. I've had a very similar result comparing the two in the past. I'm not sure what the difference is, but for me, Pfizer is either significantly more potent or somehow staying in my system longer.

I don’t ever trust compounded products. They are far less scrutinized than big pharma when it comes to quality control. There was actually a study where they took the potency of 12 compounded creams and 2 big name creams and the big names were 102% and 104% accurate to what they said while only 2/12 of the compounded were even within 20% accurate. One cream was only 10% of what it claimed