Anyone knowledgable with HCG mono?

[Dreams]

My doctor has me on 5000iu twice per week. I know this a huge amount however due to coming off 1.5 years of TRT such an amount may be needed to stimulate the testes. (There is a study showing athletes testosterone response to HCG/LH after an anabolic steroid cycle was reduced 10 or 20 fold).

Obviously 10000 IU per week is far more stimulation than any LH signal produced by the pituitary and the eventual goal ~3 months is to switch to clomid. I don't want to be left in a situation where the testes are used to responding to an unnaturally strong signal and thus don't produce T when switched from HCG to clomid. Or is it a case where the response to the signal is capped anyway way before the 10000iu mark and thus lowering the dosage, testosterone would hold steady?

The only way I can think to work this out is to find someone who has been on high dose HCG monotherapy and lowered the dose considerably or switched to clomid and experienced no drop in T output.

 

[Vince Carter]

Only if you're secondary Hypo (problem is the pituitary) could HCG Mono work but then even in typical doses like yours in HCG mono drives Estrogen conversion in the testes out of control and an AI is almost ineffective on that.

HCG mono is not worth playing around with.

 

[KenLowT]

My doctor has me on 5000iu twice per week. I know this a huge amount however due to coming off 1.5 years of TRT such an amount may be needed to stimulate the testes. (There is a study showing athletes testosterone response to HCG/LH after an anabolic steroid cycle was reduced 10 or 20 fold).

Obviously 10000 IU per week is far more stimulation than any LH signal produced by the pituitary and the eventual goal ~3 months is to switch to clomid. I don't want to be left in a situation where the testes are used to responding to an unnaturally strong signal and thus don't produce T when switched from HCG to clomid. Or is it a case where the response to the signal is capped anyway way before the 10000iu mark and thus lowering the dosage, testosterone would hold steady?

The only way I can think to work this out is to find someone who has been on high dose HCG monotherapy and lowered the dose considerably or switched to clomid and experienced no drop in T output.

I started HCG monotherapy earlier this year. My reason for starting was to increase my lower than normal testosterone numbers since libido was a huge issue for me. My endo chose HCG monotherapy because my wife and I are currently trying to conceive and being on testosterone wouldn't have worked for that. Therefore I started injections in February with 1000 units 3x per week. I never completed a sperm analysis beforehand so I don't know if the HCG helped me in that area. My endo thought I had secondary hypogonadism so she went this route to stimulate my pituitary to send the signal to increase testosterone and sperm production. From my experience it did little to nothing for me. My testes did not fill up as expected, but I did see an increase in semen volume. Total T stayed the same and actually went down a few points from 396 to 383. My Free T improved slightly, but it was very minimal and the level was still low normal. As far as symptom relief I felt none at all. My libido, strength, mood, and erections did not improve. Perhaps my E2 was heightened because of the HCG and my high BF%, but when I last checked it it was on the border of being above level.

Before HCG she had tried Clomid on me, but that was a nightmare. I was having like 7 hot flashes a day so she stopped it immediately. Obviously my E2 must've been going through the roof which is why she decided to not even tinker with it even more.

In May I met with my doctor and took a look at the numbers with her. She then recommended 2000 units, 3x per week so I did that for 2 weeks and I started to feel a little bit better, but then my insurance stopped covering it and I had to stop it cold turkey. The withdrawal effects were bad; depression, anxiety, severe ED, no libido (at least I had an inkling before), and energy levels all went down. I panicked, went back to my endo, asked her to petition the insurance, but they did not budge. I then gave up and started TRT even though I knew I was giving up on my fertility. My mood, strength, confidence came back full blast, but my libido is still not there. I also have ED issues which I believe is because I lost my confidence when my levels crashed after stopping HCG.

I wish I could be the bearer of good news, but just from my experience it did not work. Perhaps it will for you, everybody is different. Others who have heard my story suggested that I may be primary hypogonadisim. The thing is my numbers have never been below normal, they are just real low for my age, 42. I believe my testes are just not working on all cylinders, but still tried to produce just enough to get me going. I hope this works out well for you.

 

[StepbyStep]

I've been on HCG Monotherapy since March of this year, and have tried various protocols. I transitioned from TRT to HCG mono at my endos request due to a sperm count of zero after 4 months of TRT. As of last week my sperm count is up to 17mil, and the Endo said this will continue to improve. Lab timing was identical for all protocols.

First protocol: 750iu MWF Sub-q
-TT 432
-E2 19.8

Second protocol: 1250iu MWF Sub-q
-TT 472
-E2 28

Third protocol: 1250iu EOD IM
-TT 606
-E2 38

Current Protocol is 1000iu EOD IM
For me EOD has given me stable energy levels throughout the week, and has made a huge difference. Switching to IM has without a doubt led to higher TT as well as E2. So far the only high E2 symptoms are low Libido and the worst ED I've ever had. Since lowering to 1000iu from 1250iu I have seen some improvements, hopefully my E2 is coming down.

Best of luck, results can be unpredictable with HCG mono. For me going EOD and IM seems to have made all the difference.

 

[KenLowT]

I've been on HCG Monotherapy since March of this year, and have tried various protocols. I transitioned from TRT to HCG mono at my endos request due to a sperm count of zero after 4 months of TRT. As of last week my sperm count is up to 17mil, and the Endo said this will continue to improve. Lab timing was identical for all protocols.

First protocol: 750iu MWF Sub-q
-TT 432
-E2 19.8

Second protocol: 1250iu MWF Sub-q
-TT 472
-E2 28

Third protocol: 1250iu EOD IM
-TT 606
-E2 38

Current Protocol is 1000iu EOD IM
For me EOD has given me stable energy levels throughout the week, and has made a huge difference. Switching to IM has without a doubt led to higher TT as well as E2. So far the only high E2 symptoms are low Libido and the worst ED I've ever had. Since lowering to 1000iu from 1250iu I have seen some improvements, hopefully my E2 is coming down.

Best of luck, results can be unpredictable with HCG mono. For me going EOD and IM seems to have made all the difference.

That's good to hear. It looks like it's actually working for you. Perhaps the low libido and ED I had was because my E2 was high. My final E2 taken was similar to yours. Can I ask how come they didn't treat you with both TRT and HCG at the same time, rather than taking you off T altogether? My endocrinologist told me their guidelines would not allow it. Also, your insurance covers it completely? Mine which is Aetna capped it at 6 refills lifetime. They will never cover it again.

 

[Dreams]

So I'm currently using 500 eod after 1.5 years on TRT current numbers are 440 ng/dl with e2 just above range. I think these are quite good numbers considering it will take time to regain full testicular function after 1.5 years of TRT. so e2 isn't a problem at all for me with upping the dose and I think I should see good numbers. What I am specifically worried about is upping the dose leading to desensitisation to a less powerful source of LH ie clomid (mine and my doctors prefered choice of TRT) in the future.

Do any veterans of this board recall anybody who switched from high dose HCG to clomid? or high dose HCG to lower dose HCG? Or even anybody who went from high dose HCG to cold turkey. Really need help with this.

 

[StepbyStep]

That's good to hear. It looks like it's actually working for you. Perhaps the low libido and ED I had was because my E2 was high. My final E2 taken was similar to yours. Can I ask how come they didn't treat you with both TRT and HCG at the same time, rather than taking you off T altogether? My endocrinologist told me their guidelines would not allow it. Also, your insurance covers it completely? Mine which is Aetna capped it at 6 refills lifetime. They will never cover it again.

My Endo has never done a combination of Test and HCG at the same time, but after 8-9 months of poor results he has finally agreed to prescribe them together, and is aware that I'll be consulting with Defy as well.

Fortunately my insurance does cover HCG without limitations, I'm sorry that yours does not.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

In May I met with my doctor and took a look at the numbers with her. She then recommended 2000 units, 3x per week so I did that for 2 weeks and I started to feel a little bit better, but then my insurance stopped covering it and I had to stop it cold turkey. The withdrawal effects were bad; depression, anxiety, severe ED, no libido (at least I had an inkling before), and energy levels all went down. I panicked, went back to my endo, asked her to petition the insurance, but they did not budge. I then gave up and started TRT even though I knew I was giving up on my fertility. My mood, strength, confidence came back full blast, but my libido is still not there. I also have ED issues which I believe is because I lost my confidence when my levels crashed after stopping HCG.

Just to remind everyone that we can all bypass insurance and have doctors send the prescription by fax to Empower Pharmacy. They sell 12,000 IU of HCG for under $80.

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