Jay Campbell
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Hey Guys!
Please give this Podcast a listen to hear a different side of Nelson's story.
We went deep discussing his inspiring story!
http://trtrevolution.com/adversity-breakthrough-heros-battle-death-nelson-vergel-2/
TRANSCRIPT - PART 1
Jay Campbell: Hey guys, it is Jay Campbell with the definitive testosterone replacement therapy manual and the founder of the TRT Revolution podcast. I am ecstatic, beyond excited today to be joined by my great friend and really, my mentor, Nelson Vergel. I don't need to say what he's done in his life but again, he's the author of Testosterone, A man's Guide, he's the founder of ExcelMale. He's also involved with discountedlabs.com, he does so many things, he's an amazing entrepreneur and a super high conscious brother. Again, I'm honored to have him today and we're going to do a deep dive about his life. Nelson, what is going on brother, how are you?
Nelson Vergel: Doing good. Thanks a lot for having me man, you're a great supporter of my work and just love the fact that you have such a good reach to all the men out there that need help and need a little bit of guidance and coaching on not only health but also in life, so I'm very happy to be here.
Jay Campbell: Thank you, man. Like I said, honestly, for a lot of the guys that don't know who will be listening to this, Nelson is the real reason and really, only a couple of people know this but Nelson is the real reason that I pushed my book out there and that's another story that we can talk about maybe later in this podcast. I really want to center this podcast around Nelson's life. Nelson is truly a pioneer, he would define himself as an advocate for men's health and a lot of other things. I really want to get into Nelson's story today. Let's just talk a little bit about your personal life, not now but where you started. Why don't just start by telling us how did you become such a leading men's health advocate?
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. Well, thanks. Yeah, it wasn't by chance, sometimes I think things don't happen by chance. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a doctor. I'm from Venezuela, and my government was giving scholarships to go overseas to study. The only thing they would give scholarships for is engineering, so no medicine. I think we had enough doctors back then, of course now the stories ... I basically say, “Well, I guess engineering, closest thing I may like to be is a chemical engineer. At least I'll be able to do some works with chemistry and biochemistry.” I went for chemical engineering but I always wanted to work in health. I ended up working in the oil and gas industry after graduating from McGill University, which was good but I started feeling like I didn't want to be part of a polluting industry even though I was an environmental engineer, that was my specialty. I just knew that was not for me, I just knew that my heart wasn't into it ... I wanted to help people with their health. I came to the U.S. in '84 to do a masters, basically running away from stigma because I'm also ***. Obviously down there ... things have gotten better when it comes to stigma with *** people but back then it was not good, I'm talking about the ‘80s.
Jay Campbell: Sure.
Nelson Vergel: When I came to the States, within six months, I had my first partner back then for whom I moved here, within six months, he told me he had contracted HIV. I didn't even know that you had to use condoms back them because we barely knew what was causing this. I found out I was HIV positive in '85, just six months after they found out how to test for the virus, for the antibodies. I was in my 20s and pretty much had just gotten here to the states to make it big, an immigrant engineer, came to Houston basically because I'm an engineer and here is where engineers end up, chemical engineers. It was devastating, I was like, “No, I just didn't immigrate from South America to die in this country.” I was I think 23, I forget, I'm 58 now. It was horrible, it was the worst feeling you can have, to be told in your 20s that you don't have much time left, that somebody is going to take away all your dreams and that there's nothing you can do about it except pray and go home to “take care of things”. That's what I was told in a very small room by a counselor.
“Go home and pray and take care of your business,” that's what he said, meaning, talk to your parents, get your will and whatever it is in order. I was freaked out, I probably cried for three days nonstop. Back then we thought that only happened to certain people, drug users or very promiscuous. I was just coming out and was with my first boyfriend. Anyways, so that's when I said, “Well, this is it, this is my chance to get into health and medicine because either I do it for my own survival or I just die.”
Jay Campbell: We'll talk about that a little bit because obviously, everything you just said is incredible. Anyone that would be 23 or 24 years old and literally be given a death sentence essentially ... I want you to expand on that because you had mentioned that at that time in the whole front and battle against HIV and AIDS and all stuff, there wasn't even awareness, you didn't even know what was going on. The reality is, is that ... Now you're this guy on an island, you've got idiots telling you, “Hey, just go home and bow your head and die. Prepare for what's next, which is death.” You were in shock initially, you cried for three days, I can't even comprehend what I would have done, probably worse, I may have just curled up into a shell. What did you do? After you stopped crying.
Nelson Vergel: When I stopped crying, I just told myself ... maybe I was just in denial, “I am not going to die of this. I refuse to be a victim of this bug...” My boyfriend had a lot of friends and I become friends with a lot of people in Houston and many were already dying. People were already developing Kaposi sarcoma, which are these horrible spots on your face and body caused by another virus that attacks you when your immune system is down.
Jay Campbell: The sores, yeah. You were watching people die.
Nelson Vergel: I remember thinking “Oh my God, I'm going to get these things on my face, I'm going to waste away.” Everybody was wasting away. You see all these muscular guys, *** guys who were working out and they were shrinking ... my boyfriend too, started to shrink no matter how much they ate. You would go to the grocery store and all these real skinny guys, young guys walking around, shopping during the day because that's usually when they would come out. They would not come out in rush hour since they were afraid to be seen in bones and with spots on their faces that outed them as having AIDS. I was just like, “Oh my God, that's not going to be me, I just cannot accept that.” I became obsessed and right away, fortunately, I found out the CDC. The Center for Disease Control was, for the first time, training people, volunteers that wanted to inform themselves and become counselors to help people that were getting their HIV test results.
I was working for Shell during the day, in a refinery, all day and then I would come home, change quickly and go at night to this clinic where people were sitting there waiting for their test results shaking in fear. I could see the whole room, all these scared people, girls and boys and these are mostly young people, just waiting for their number, waiting for their turn for horrible news.
Jay Campbell: Scared shitless, right?
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I was trained for three weeks by the government to be that person, I was a volunteer. Every night I would get up and call somebody's name, even though I already had found out I was HIV so I said, “Well, I'm going to have to get out of my head, maybe start helping people, maybe that will help me too.” I would say out of four people, three would show up positive in the blood test results back then in '86, '87. I would tell them, “Hey, listen man, I'm also HIV positive, I found out just a year ago. Let's not lose hope, I know this is not our death sentence right now” Back then there were no drugs, nothing, there was nothing. It really helped me, I got it right there. I got what it is to help others and to get out of your head, get out of your self-pity, get aware of your power, the power even in the worst situation in your life, not to let that rule you and define you.
That's what I got and got that I could do ... me, myself, alone. My mother always told me that I was born for greatness and to help others. I just don't know why she used to-
Jay Campbell: She was right.
Nelson Vergel: Thank you. As I was raised in Venezuela, we worshiped Simon Bolivar who is our freedom fighter that freed not only our country but four more countries in South America. We were always taught that one person can rule the world, they really can make a difference. I was raised that if Simon Bolivar could get on his horse and go through the entire continent avoiding Spaniards ... he was a skinny guy, 5'5, skinny, on a horse with a bunch of people obviously behind him. I had that picture of me that one day I will be in a horse. Sorry, it sounds kind of-
Jay Campbell: No, I get it.
Nelson Vergel: That I would be in a horse and I would be doing something that would help people. There, I found my horse with HIV.
Jay Campbell: At this point now, so this is maybe a year and a half, two years into this. Obviously how I became exposed to you, as you know is I read your first book. It was probably a little bit later than that.
Nelson Vergel: A lot later, yeah.
Jay Campbell: Yeah, Built to Survive with Michael Mooney. Talk a little bit about, how did you get to that point from now recognizing that you're on your horse and that you're going to become an advocate, you're going to be fighting this disease.
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. Remember and I remind all the youngsters out there that we didn't have an internet back then. We have no internet!
Jay Campbell: Believe me, I was that guy, I was in college, I had no computer, I still have word processor.
Nelson Vergel: Yeah, I'm like what, 30 years older than you. Yeah, we had-
Jay Campbell: No, you're not. You're 12 years older than me, excuse me.
Nelson Vergel: Yeah, I'm 58. Anyways, we had no internet, so I would go to a library, I started reading about immunology. I don't even know how it happened because we didn't have internet, but I started hearing about these guys around the country that were writing newsletters. They were just going crazy, they were creating buyers' clubs, they were going to Mexico importing crazy things with the hope that they would boost their immune system. For some strange reason, to be honest with you, I don't remember how I got hooked up. I subscribed to John James' AIDS Treatment News. John is HIV negative and is still around. I love that man. Every time I see him I tell him, “Man, you saved my life.”
He would send newsletters every week to ... we had to go to our mailbox and pick it up. I would read and I realized, “Oh my God, these guys are importing stuff from Mexico and I need to start doing that.” I created with another friend of mine, a buyers' club back then, the Houston Buyers Club. The Houston Buyers Club was created before the Dallas Buyers Club, the movie, Dallas Buyers Club. We started doing the stuff, we started bringing herbal stuff and I'm going to write a book once about this one day... we probably tried 50 different therapies that by the way, we're looking now looking into them again, some of them still have promise. It's just that obviously back then, we didn't have the medications we have now so nothing really was working.
I tell this, this is freaky, it's one of my funniest stories about HIV. We found out this Chinese cucumber that if you boil it and you had an enema with it, it was supposed to improve your immune system. We had enemas support groups spreading around the country!
Jay Campbell: Wasn't there a part in Dallas Buyers Club about that, where they had mentioned that or something? Yeah.
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. There were all kinds of crazy stuff because we were desperate.
Jay Campbell: Of course.
Nelson Vergel: Quickly, I'm going to speak forward. AZT, an old cancer drug, came in and I joined the AZT monotherapy study. It was a placebo controlled study, my boyfriend got in too. My boyfriend started deteriorating fast and I was kind of stable. Then two years later they unblinded the study and they told us if we were in placebo or not. My boyfriend was on AZT high dose, and I was on placebo. I was like, “Shit, I'm placebo.” I was really upset, looking back, I was lucky to be placebo because AZT was killing people faster. That's why my boyfriend eventually died of wasting and all that. Anyways, I was losing weight already and people I worked with at Shell were telling me, “You look a little ... are you okay? Are you feeling OK?” I was in the closet, in fact in the double closet, the *** closet and the HIV closet. I was afraid to be fired if anyone found out.
I was getting promoted, I focused on my work because that was my only salvation back then. I would work all day and then go to the clinic to counsel at night. I'm getting too ahead of myself…
Jay Campbell: No, it's okay. I wanted to ask you about your boyfriend and him and dying and stuff. Did that devastate you, what happened?
Nelson Vergel: It was horrible. I not only had to bury him but I also had two more partners that died. It was like the ****ing black widow, every boyfriend I had was dying. Most of my friends, I think I counted ... I stopped counting at 35. All my friends in the ‘80s. Everybody that I was hanging out with, even ... yeah, I have pictures on my bookcase, even my mom says, “All these people are dead?” I said, “Yes, mom.” There are a few of us left from that time. I live with a lot of gratitude and gratefulness.
Jay Campbell: Well, if you're okay and you're okay with it, I do really want to go deeper with you on that. Do you think that ... because I've been blessed in my life that I have not experienced a lot of death. My younger brother however, has literally been one of those guys who's had literally 11 very close friends and colleagues of his in his life and he's only 37, die. He's only eight years younger than me. He's been around that and it's made him different. I come from a large family, six boys and three girls but he's a lot different. Do you feel like being around death as much as you did has made you the man that you are? Again, I worship to God and-
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I feel ... thank you. I feel different, I think I aged a lot inside. Basically, to be in your 20 and have to bury friends and lovers... I remember, we stopped having parties, we started having memorial services. Every week it was a memorial service.
Jay Campbell: I can't imagine.
Nelson Vergel: I got shut down. I shut down, I stopped crying, my friends used to say, “You get very transactional.” I remember that word because I get into transactions, meaning, “Okay, who's dying, okay, let's find out how we can take care of things”. “Okay, let's find out how we're going to pay for the cremation, how are we going to do the memorial service?” I would get transactional because it was a lot to do because families were rejecting all these boys ...and they were just boys in their 20's. It was horrible and part of me remembers those days and I basically feel ... Hold on, there is something here. I basically feel that that's not me, that wasn't even me. It's almost like the present me has disassociated from the past me.
It really is almost going through a war. Somebody even asked me, “How did it feel to have a deadly disease with no treatment?” Well, you know, I heard from one of my closest lady friends that lived through the second war in London while Nazis were bombing that city. I asked her, “How did you deal with knowing that bombs were coming down, would you just not sleep?” She says, “No, we all went to sleep and we just hoped that a bomb would not fall on us. After a while, we just got numb that we knew eventually a bomb may fall on us and kill us.” I says, “Oh my God, that's exactly how I feel.” It's almost like you're feeling like people are dropping dead, you may be the next one although back then we didn't have the T-cell and viral load test and fortunately, otherwise I would have freaked out.
It was like that for a long time, till '96, we were traumatized. Stigma was all around us but brought the *** community together. I was part of this movement, I became involved and increasingly obsessed with wasting syndrome. I remember my boyfriend's doctor telling me, that since he had HIV, there was nothing we could do about wasting. He was going to die in bones and in front of them. I said, “I'm sorry to use this word, **** no. I am not going to accept that.” That's exactly why I started like, “Okay, I need to read all these bodybuilding magazines”, and that's why I started reading all stuff related to anabolic steroids, nutrition and supplementation.
Jay Campbell: Let me ask you this, about the body building. Who would you attribute ... and you and I have talked about Dr. X from the magazine Muscle Media 2000 but who was the pioneer who figured out that there was salvation for wasting patients in muscle building and performance enhancement?
Nelson Vergel: It happened all at once. I was very lucky that Shell transferred me from ... well actually, they hired me in Los Angeles. I moved from Houston to Los Angeles. I really believe, that's why I love Los Angeles, I love California. Los Angeles saved my life.
Jay Campbell: We'll sell your house and move here!, don't worry.
Nelson Vergel: See if I can afford it!
Jay Campbell: Don't worry, where you're going, you'll be able to afford it.
Nelson Vergel: LA saved my life. I remember I was there and I was going to support groups at night because I said, “****, this is going to kill me eventually.” Especially at the refinery, they were telling me I was looking green because when you're having a little bit of liver issues. I started going to support groups in 1992. These two guys walked in, in one of the support groups and were huge, like a brickhouse and everybody else was tiny. I looked at them, I thought, “Well these guys know something we don't know.” It was at one of MaryAnn Williamson's support groups. We would sit on the floor, she would sit on a chair and she would remind us, tell us every time, “You're not victims, you are not victims. Don't let anybody tell you you're a victim.”
That also brainwashed me to, “Okay, I'm not a victim, I'm going to take charge.” As soon as I saw these guys, I went to them, I said, “Listen, you guys are ... damn, you don't look sick.” They said, “Well, we're doing Deca and testosterone.”
Jay Campbell: You're like, what the hell is that?
Nelson Vergel: They said, “Well you should do it too.” I was a thin guy since I has lost 20 pounds already without trying. I weighed 140 Lbs. I never really was into bodybuilding. And I never had dreams of being a muscle guy, it was not part of my culture.
Jay Campbell: No, that's not true, right.
Nelson Vergel: What happened is that ... they said, “Well, you know, you should try it because you're going to die anyway, so try it. We can get something from Mexico.” I said, “No, it's going to destroy my liver,” you know?
Jay Campbell: Yeah.
Nelson Vergel: They said, “Who cares- that is not true. Wasting will kill you first“
Jay Campbell: Hair is going to fall off, and all side effects …
Nelson Vergel: You're going to die anyway, it's okay. Anyways, I went to their place and they injected me with, I think Sustanon and Deca. Within like three days, I was like ... I started feeling in charge and energy because I was losing energy, appetite, and I put on 35 pounds of muscle in 8 weeks, like crazy. When you're wasting, your body responds even better to anaboics. People at work say, “Man, you look good.” I was starting to hear for the first time in 10 years, “You look good.”
Jay Campbell: That's awesome.
Nelson Vergel: L.A. is a very body conscious place and people that didn't even talk to me before when I went out to ... back then, that's all we could do, go out to the bars, now they were approaching me. People at the restaurants were treating me kindlier. I started feeling like-
Jay Campbell: So true.
Nelson Vergel: Yeah, like being muscled means that people will treat you better. That's when it clicked, I was like, “Okay, I may survive so I'm not going to waste but also people are treating me better.” This whole thing just started happening there. I became obsessed so-
Jay Campbell: How old were you now, you were about 30?
Nelson Vergel: Yeah, well maybe 29, I don't know.
Jay Campbell: Okay, but right around 30, right around-
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. The friends who saved my life and now dead, Preston and Stanley, they're my angels, my saviors. Preston died of KS in the lungs and his partner killed himself since he got so depressed after Preston died. Preston told me once that if he died he would be happy if they had to use an extra- large casket. I really believe that without them I would not be even talking to you right now.
Jay Campbell: That's awesome man.
Nelson Vergel: Being muscled prevents wasting and it gives you time but if your T-cells are low, eventually you develop other things. Reversing wasting buys you time. Anyways, one of them, Preston, God, I feel emotional.
Jay Campbell: It's okay.
Nelson Vergel: Preston told me, “Man, I just read this article on Muscle Media 2000. This Dr. X, he's a doctor and he's got HIV and he's actually writing about what we're doing,” …
Jay Campbell: Of course, of course.
Nelson Vergel: It started clicking, everybody started talking about Dr. X. There were two doctors in L.A. that are prescribing hormones to HIV positive people I an underground way. One of them was also HIV+. Preston told me “Don't tell anybody but go there and see him.” The whole thing started happening and I say, “I need to meet this Dr. X.” I was obsessed, this guy became my idol. After Preston found Dr X's number somehow, I called him once and I introduced myself. We talked for two hours and I told him, “Listen, I'm a chemical engineer, I am working all day for Shell but my goal is to get out of engineering and work in health. I want to preach, I want to educate, I want to go around the country and teach doctors about anabolic steroids to prevent and reverse wasting syndrome. I want to help, whatever you need from me ...” “Yeah, I'm writing a book about my experiences and all that,” He said. I offered “I would love to help you, whatever it is.”
I was obsessed with reading about anabolism, I really was. I would stay up until 3:00 in the morning reading. Anyway, so he called me maybe two months later, and said, “Listen, I have something important to talk to you about.” My T-cells have obviously dropped and I was just diagnosed with CMV Retinitis, (meaning it's a virus and when your immune system gets suppressed, it flares up and it eats up your retina and you become blind). I do not want to be blind. I don't care, I just will not accept being blind. I don't want to die blind.” He says, “Therefore,” he said, “I just called all my friends and within two hours, I'm having a party at the house.”
Back then, we were all, believe or not ... this sounds weird, we were reading this book called, “The Final Exit” and now they're on the sixth edition, on how to kill yourself safely.
Please give this Podcast a listen to hear a different side of Nelson's story.
We went deep discussing his inspiring story!
http://trtrevolution.com/adversity-breakthrough-heros-battle-death-nelson-vergel-2/
TRANSCRIPT - PART 1
Jay Campbell: Hey guys, it is Jay Campbell with the definitive testosterone replacement therapy manual and the founder of the TRT Revolution podcast. I am ecstatic, beyond excited today to be joined by my great friend and really, my mentor, Nelson Vergel. I don't need to say what he's done in his life but again, he's the author of Testosterone, A man's Guide, he's the founder of ExcelMale. He's also involved with discountedlabs.com, he does so many things, he's an amazing entrepreneur and a super high conscious brother. Again, I'm honored to have him today and we're going to do a deep dive about his life. Nelson, what is going on brother, how are you?
Nelson Vergel: Doing good. Thanks a lot for having me man, you're a great supporter of my work and just love the fact that you have such a good reach to all the men out there that need help and need a little bit of guidance and coaching on not only health but also in life, so I'm very happy to be here.
Jay Campbell: Thank you, man. Like I said, honestly, for a lot of the guys that don't know who will be listening to this, Nelson is the real reason and really, only a couple of people know this but Nelson is the real reason that I pushed my book out there and that's another story that we can talk about maybe later in this podcast. I really want to center this podcast around Nelson's life. Nelson is truly a pioneer, he would define himself as an advocate for men's health and a lot of other things. I really want to get into Nelson's story today. Let's just talk a little bit about your personal life, not now but where you started. Why don't just start by telling us how did you become such a leading men's health advocate?
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. Well, thanks. Yeah, it wasn't by chance, sometimes I think things don't happen by chance. When I was a kid, I wanted to be a doctor. I'm from Venezuela, and my government was giving scholarships to go overseas to study. The only thing they would give scholarships for is engineering, so no medicine. I think we had enough doctors back then, of course now the stories ... I basically say, “Well, I guess engineering, closest thing I may like to be is a chemical engineer. At least I'll be able to do some works with chemistry and biochemistry.” I went for chemical engineering but I always wanted to work in health. I ended up working in the oil and gas industry after graduating from McGill University, which was good but I started feeling like I didn't want to be part of a polluting industry even though I was an environmental engineer, that was my specialty. I just knew that was not for me, I just knew that my heart wasn't into it ... I wanted to help people with their health. I came to the U.S. in '84 to do a masters, basically running away from stigma because I'm also ***. Obviously down there ... things have gotten better when it comes to stigma with *** people but back then it was not good, I'm talking about the ‘80s.
Jay Campbell: Sure.
Nelson Vergel: When I came to the States, within six months, I had my first partner back then for whom I moved here, within six months, he told me he had contracted HIV. I didn't even know that you had to use condoms back them because we barely knew what was causing this. I found out I was HIV positive in '85, just six months after they found out how to test for the virus, for the antibodies. I was in my 20s and pretty much had just gotten here to the states to make it big, an immigrant engineer, came to Houston basically because I'm an engineer and here is where engineers end up, chemical engineers. It was devastating, I was like, “No, I just didn't immigrate from South America to die in this country.” I was I think 23, I forget, I'm 58 now. It was horrible, it was the worst feeling you can have, to be told in your 20s that you don't have much time left, that somebody is going to take away all your dreams and that there's nothing you can do about it except pray and go home to “take care of things”. That's what I was told in a very small room by a counselor.
“Go home and pray and take care of your business,” that's what he said, meaning, talk to your parents, get your will and whatever it is in order. I was freaked out, I probably cried for three days nonstop. Back then we thought that only happened to certain people, drug users or very promiscuous. I was just coming out and was with my first boyfriend. Anyways, so that's when I said, “Well, this is it, this is my chance to get into health and medicine because either I do it for my own survival or I just die.”
Jay Campbell: We'll talk about that a little bit because obviously, everything you just said is incredible. Anyone that would be 23 or 24 years old and literally be given a death sentence essentially ... I want you to expand on that because you had mentioned that at that time in the whole front and battle against HIV and AIDS and all stuff, there wasn't even awareness, you didn't even know what was going on. The reality is, is that ... Now you're this guy on an island, you've got idiots telling you, “Hey, just go home and bow your head and die. Prepare for what's next, which is death.” You were in shock initially, you cried for three days, I can't even comprehend what I would have done, probably worse, I may have just curled up into a shell. What did you do? After you stopped crying.
Nelson Vergel: When I stopped crying, I just told myself ... maybe I was just in denial, “I am not going to die of this. I refuse to be a victim of this bug...” My boyfriend had a lot of friends and I become friends with a lot of people in Houston and many were already dying. People were already developing Kaposi sarcoma, which are these horrible spots on your face and body caused by another virus that attacks you when your immune system is down.
Jay Campbell: The sores, yeah. You were watching people die.
Nelson Vergel: I remember thinking “Oh my God, I'm going to get these things on my face, I'm going to waste away.” Everybody was wasting away. You see all these muscular guys, *** guys who were working out and they were shrinking ... my boyfriend too, started to shrink no matter how much they ate. You would go to the grocery store and all these real skinny guys, young guys walking around, shopping during the day because that's usually when they would come out. They would not come out in rush hour since they were afraid to be seen in bones and with spots on their faces that outed them as having AIDS. I was just like, “Oh my God, that's not going to be me, I just cannot accept that.” I became obsessed and right away, fortunately, I found out the CDC. The Center for Disease Control was, for the first time, training people, volunteers that wanted to inform themselves and become counselors to help people that were getting their HIV test results.
I was working for Shell during the day, in a refinery, all day and then I would come home, change quickly and go at night to this clinic where people were sitting there waiting for their test results shaking in fear. I could see the whole room, all these scared people, girls and boys and these are mostly young people, just waiting for their number, waiting for their turn for horrible news.
Jay Campbell: Scared shitless, right?
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I was trained for three weeks by the government to be that person, I was a volunteer. Every night I would get up and call somebody's name, even though I already had found out I was HIV so I said, “Well, I'm going to have to get out of my head, maybe start helping people, maybe that will help me too.” I would say out of four people, three would show up positive in the blood test results back then in '86, '87. I would tell them, “Hey, listen man, I'm also HIV positive, I found out just a year ago. Let's not lose hope, I know this is not our death sentence right now” Back then there were no drugs, nothing, there was nothing. It really helped me, I got it right there. I got what it is to help others and to get out of your head, get out of your self-pity, get aware of your power, the power even in the worst situation in your life, not to let that rule you and define you.
That's what I got and got that I could do ... me, myself, alone. My mother always told me that I was born for greatness and to help others. I just don't know why she used to-
Jay Campbell: She was right.
Nelson Vergel: Thank you. As I was raised in Venezuela, we worshiped Simon Bolivar who is our freedom fighter that freed not only our country but four more countries in South America. We were always taught that one person can rule the world, they really can make a difference. I was raised that if Simon Bolivar could get on his horse and go through the entire continent avoiding Spaniards ... he was a skinny guy, 5'5, skinny, on a horse with a bunch of people obviously behind him. I had that picture of me that one day I will be in a horse. Sorry, it sounds kind of-
Jay Campbell: No, I get it.
Nelson Vergel: That I would be in a horse and I would be doing something that would help people. There, I found my horse with HIV.
Jay Campbell: At this point now, so this is maybe a year and a half, two years into this. Obviously how I became exposed to you, as you know is I read your first book. It was probably a little bit later than that.
Nelson Vergel: A lot later, yeah.
Jay Campbell: Yeah, Built to Survive with Michael Mooney. Talk a little bit about, how did you get to that point from now recognizing that you're on your horse and that you're going to become an advocate, you're going to be fighting this disease.
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. Remember and I remind all the youngsters out there that we didn't have an internet back then. We have no internet!
Jay Campbell: Believe me, I was that guy, I was in college, I had no computer, I still have word processor.
Nelson Vergel: Yeah, I'm like what, 30 years older than you. Yeah, we had-
Jay Campbell: No, you're not. You're 12 years older than me, excuse me.
Nelson Vergel: Yeah, I'm 58. Anyways, we had no internet, so I would go to a library, I started reading about immunology. I don't even know how it happened because we didn't have internet, but I started hearing about these guys around the country that were writing newsletters. They were just going crazy, they were creating buyers' clubs, they were going to Mexico importing crazy things with the hope that they would boost their immune system. For some strange reason, to be honest with you, I don't remember how I got hooked up. I subscribed to John James' AIDS Treatment News. John is HIV negative and is still around. I love that man. Every time I see him I tell him, “Man, you saved my life.”
He would send newsletters every week to ... we had to go to our mailbox and pick it up. I would read and I realized, “Oh my God, these guys are importing stuff from Mexico and I need to start doing that.” I created with another friend of mine, a buyers' club back then, the Houston Buyers Club. The Houston Buyers Club was created before the Dallas Buyers Club, the movie, Dallas Buyers Club. We started doing the stuff, we started bringing herbal stuff and I'm going to write a book once about this one day... we probably tried 50 different therapies that by the way, we're looking now looking into them again, some of them still have promise. It's just that obviously back then, we didn't have the medications we have now so nothing really was working.
I tell this, this is freaky, it's one of my funniest stories about HIV. We found out this Chinese cucumber that if you boil it and you had an enema with it, it was supposed to improve your immune system. We had enemas support groups spreading around the country!
Jay Campbell: Wasn't there a part in Dallas Buyers Club about that, where they had mentioned that or something? Yeah.
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. There were all kinds of crazy stuff because we were desperate.
Jay Campbell: Of course.
Nelson Vergel: Quickly, I'm going to speak forward. AZT, an old cancer drug, came in and I joined the AZT monotherapy study. It was a placebo controlled study, my boyfriend got in too. My boyfriend started deteriorating fast and I was kind of stable. Then two years later they unblinded the study and they told us if we were in placebo or not. My boyfriend was on AZT high dose, and I was on placebo. I was like, “Shit, I'm placebo.” I was really upset, looking back, I was lucky to be placebo because AZT was killing people faster. That's why my boyfriend eventually died of wasting and all that. Anyways, I was losing weight already and people I worked with at Shell were telling me, “You look a little ... are you okay? Are you feeling OK?” I was in the closet, in fact in the double closet, the *** closet and the HIV closet. I was afraid to be fired if anyone found out.
I was getting promoted, I focused on my work because that was my only salvation back then. I would work all day and then go to the clinic to counsel at night. I'm getting too ahead of myself…
Jay Campbell: No, it's okay. I wanted to ask you about your boyfriend and him and dying and stuff. Did that devastate you, what happened?
Nelson Vergel: It was horrible. I not only had to bury him but I also had two more partners that died. It was like the ****ing black widow, every boyfriend I had was dying. Most of my friends, I think I counted ... I stopped counting at 35. All my friends in the ‘80s. Everybody that I was hanging out with, even ... yeah, I have pictures on my bookcase, even my mom says, “All these people are dead?” I said, “Yes, mom.” There are a few of us left from that time. I live with a lot of gratitude and gratefulness.
Jay Campbell: Well, if you're okay and you're okay with it, I do really want to go deeper with you on that. Do you think that ... because I've been blessed in my life that I have not experienced a lot of death. My younger brother however, has literally been one of those guys who's had literally 11 very close friends and colleagues of his in his life and he's only 37, die. He's only eight years younger than me. He's been around that and it's made him different. I come from a large family, six boys and three girls but he's a lot different. Do you feel like being around death as much as you did has made you the man that you are? Again, I worship to God and-
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. I feel ... thank you. I feel different, I think I aged a lot inside. Basically, to be in your 20 and have to bury friends and lovers... I remember, we stopped having parties, we started having memorial services. Every week it was a memorial service.
Jay Campbell: I can't imagine.
Nelson Vergel: I got shut down. I shut down, I stopped crying, my friends used to say, “You get very transactional.” I remember that word because I get into transactions, meaning, “Okay, who's dying, okay, let's find out how we can take care of things”. “Okay, let's find out how we're going to pay for the cremation, how are we going to do the memorial service?” I would get transactional because it was a lot to do because families were rejecting all these boys ...and they were just boys in their 20's. It was horrible and part of me remembers those days and I basically feel ... Hold on, there is something here. I basically feel that that's not me, that wasn't even me. It's almost like the present me has disassociated from the past me.
It really is almost going through a war. Somebody even asked me, “How did it feel to have a deadly disease with no treatment?” Well, you know, I heard from one of my closest lady friends that lived through the second war in London while Nazis were bombing that city. I asked her, “How did you deal with knowing that bombs were coming down, would you just not sleep?” She says, “No, we all went to sleep and we just hoped that a bomb would not fall on us. After a while, we just got numb that we knew eventually a bomb may fall on us and kill us.” I says, “Oh my God, that's exactly how I feel.” It's almost like you're feeling like people are dropping dead, you may be the next one although back then we didn't have the T-cell and viral load test and fortunately, otherwise I would have freaked out.
It was like that for a long time, till '96, we were traumatized. Stigma was all around us but brought the *** community together. I was part of this movement, I became involved and increasingly obsessed with wasting syndrome. I remember my boyfriend's doctor telling me, that since he had HIV, there was nothing we could do about wasting. He was going to die in bones and in front of them. I said, “I'm sorry to use this word, **** no. I am not going to accept that.” That's exactly why I started like, “Okay, I need to read all these bodybuilding magazines”, and that's why I started reading all stuff related to anabolic steroids, nutrition and supplementation.
Jay Campbell: Let me ask you this, about the body building. Who would you attribute ... and you and I have talked about Dr. X from the magazine Muscle Media 2000 but who was the pioneer who figured out that there was salvation for wasting patients in muscle building and performance enhancement?
Nelson Vergel: It happened all at once. I was very lucky that Shell transferred me from ... well actually, they hired me in Los Angeles. I moved from Houston to Los Angeles. I really believe, that's why I love Los Angeles, I love California. Los Angeles saved my life.
Jay Campbell: We'll sell your house and move here!, don't worry.
Nelson Vergel: See if I can afford it!
Jay Campbell: Don't worry, where you're going, you'll be able to afford it.
Nelson Vergel: LA saved my life. I remember I was there and I was going to support groups at night because I said, “****, this is going to kill me eventually.” Especially at the refinery, they were telling me I was looking green because when you're having a little bit of liver issues. I started going to support groups in 1992. These two guys walked in, in one of the support groups and were huge, like a brickhouse and everybody else was tiny. I looked at them, I thought, “Well these guys know something we don't know.” It was at one of MaryAnn Williamson's support groups. We would sit on the floor, she would sit on a chair and she would remind us, tell us every time, “You're not victims, you are not victims. Don't let anybody tell you you're a victim.”
That also brainwashed me to, “Okay, I'm not a victim, I'm going to take charge.” As soon as I saw these guys, I went to them, I said, “Listen, you guys are ... damn, you don't look sick.” They said, “Well, we're doing Deca and testosterone.”
Jay Campbell: You're like, what the hell is that?
Nelson Vergel: They said, “Well you should do it too.” I was a thin guy since I has lost 20 pounds already without trying. I weighed 140 Lbs. I never really was into bodybuilding. And I never had dreams of being a muscle guy, it was not part of my culture.
Jay Campbell: No, that's not true, right.
Nelson Vergel: What happened is that ... they said, “Well, you know, you should try it because you're going to die anyway, so try it. We can get something from Mexico.” I said, “No, it's going to destroy my liver,” you know?
Jay Campbell: Yeah.
Nelson Vergel: They said, “Who cares- that is not true. Wasting will kill you first“
Jay Campbell: Hair is going to fall off, and all side effects …
Nelson Vergel: You're going to die anyway, it's okay. Anyways, I went to their place and they injected me with, I think Sustanon and Deca. Within like three days, I was like ... I started feeling in charge and energy because I was losing energy, appetite, and I put on 35 pounds of muscle in 8 weeks, like crazy. When you're wasting, your body responds even better to anaboics. People at work say, “Man, you look good.” I was starting to hear for the first time in 10 years, “You look good.”
Jay Campbell: That's awesome.
Nelson Vergel: L.A. is a very body conscious place and people that didn't even talk to me before when I went out to ... back then, that's all we could do, go out to the bars, now they were approaching me. People at the restaurants were treating me kindlier. I started feeling like-
Jay Campbell: So true.
Nelson Vergel: Yeah, like being muscled means that people will treat you better. That's when it clicked, I was like, “Okay, I may survive so I'm not going to waste but also people are treating me better.” This whole thing just started happening there. I became obsessed so-
Jay Campbell: How old were you now, you were about 30?
Nelson Vergel: Yeah, well maybe 29, I don't know.
Jay Campbell: Okay, but right around 30, right around-
Nelson Vergel: Yeah. The friends who saved my life and now dead, Preston and Stanley, they're my angels, my saviors. Preston died of KS in the lungs and his partner killed himself since he got so depressed after Preston died. Preston told me once that if he died he would be happy if they had to use an extra- large casket. I really believe that without them I would not be even talking to you right now.
Jay Campbell: That's awesome man.
Nelson Vergel: Being muscled prevents wasting and it gives you time but if your T-cells are low, eventually you develop other things. Reversing wasting buys you time. Anyways, one of them, Preston, God, I feel emotional.
Jay Campbell: It's okay.
Nelson Vergel: Preston told me, “Man, I just read this article on Muscle Media 2000. This Dr. X, he's a doctor and he's got HIV and he's actually writing about what we're doing,” …
Jay Campbell: Of course, of course.
Nelson Vergel: It started clicking, everybody started talking about Dr. X. There were two doctors in L.A. that are prescribing hormones to HIV positive people I an underground way. One of them was also HIV+. Preston told me “Don't tell anybody but go there and see him.” The whole thing started happening and I say, “I need to meet this Dr. X.” I was obsessed, this guy became my idol. After Preston found Dr X's number somehow, I called him once and I introduced myself. We talked for two hours and I told him, “Listen, I'm a chemical engineer, I am working all day for Shell but my goal is to get out of engineering and work in health. I want to preach, I want to educate, I want to go around the country and teach doctors about anabolic steroids to prevent and reverse wasting syndrome. I want to help, whatever you need from me ...” “Yeah, I'm writing a book about my experiences and all that,” He said. I offered “I would love to help you, whatever it is.”
I was obsessed with reading about anabolism, I really was. I would stay up until 3:00 in the morning reading. Anyway, so he called me maybe two months later, and said, “Listen, I have something important to talk to you about.” My T-cells have obviously dropped and I was just diagnosed with CMV Retinitis, (meaning it's a virus and when your immune system gets suppressed, it flares up and it eats up your retina and you become blind). I do not want to be blind. I don't care, I just will not accept being blind. I don't want to die blind.” He says, “Therefore,” he said, “I just called all my friends and within two hours, I'm having a party at the house.”
Back then, we were all, believe or not ... this sounds weird, we were reading this book called, “The Final Exit” and now they're on the sixth edition, on how to kill yourself safely.
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