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However, you’re using it as an adjunct to TRT. I doubt you’d notice a 10-20% decrease. I use it as HCG mono, in which case such a decrease could lead to a 10-20% decrease in T levels, which could be more noticeable.

This is an awesome thread. Thank you for the updates! I am on HCG mono myself and would love to try an enclo restart. Your story gives me hope. How do you feel now?

How delicate is reconstituted HCG? I know this question has been answered with respect to HCG powder. And supposedly reconstituted peptides such as GLP-1s and HGH are not as delicate as widely thought. But is this true for reconstituted HCG?

I guess the average FT throughout the day is around 11-12 and peak FT is about 13-14?

Thanks!

A little off topic but I always thought the average morning peak was about 680 and average daily level was about 600 (not 500). Is this incorrect?

The serm effect on IGF-1 may not imply anti-estrogenic effect on the liver. Rather the reduction in IGF-1 may result from lower growth hormone levels from anti estrogenic effects at the pituitary. Growth hormone stimulates IGF-1 production.

It’s interesting how people often talk about how we don’t know the long term effects of serm monotherapy, and use this as a reason to justify T monotherapy or T+HCG therapy. But who is to say we know the long term effects of T monotherapy or T+HCG? The kisspeptin research clearly demonstrates...

I may not have to make this choice if the HCG increases my libido.

Thank you both for your replies. @Cataceous My theory is that the use of Anastrazole may be responsible for the “Clomid effect” with HCG mono. HCG mono protocols often require the use of anastrazole, which may counteract symptomatic relief. People have often reported feeling “low estrogen...

@Cataceous Would love to hear your thoughts if possible.

I’ve been on HCG mono for some time now and my labs have recently looked strong. (On 600iu EOD and .5mg Anastrazole a week, my labs have been T in the low 600s and E2 in the mid/high 30s. My SHBG is about 20.) Prolactin is normal. While I have slimmed down alot on this protocol, I have been...

From what I’ve read on the forum, it seems like many of Defys starting protocols surpass the upper limit of what might be considered a reasonable high-dose. 140mg a week seems like a commonly described Defy protocol, whereas I would consider 100mg to be a reasonable high-dose.

Thank you @Cataceous for your thoughtful point. I wonder if one reason testosterone levels have been falling in recent decades is perhaps because it is actually healthier to have slightly below average levels of testosterone. No doubt there are negative factors causing the fall in testosterone...

I’m not sure this point sums it up—if anything it goes against what I was trying to say because they endorse the “high-normal” theory because they claim that 800-950 is generally the best place for testosterone levels. I agree that a level of 265 (or 365 for that matter) should probably...

For so long we used to believe that “low-normal” estrogen was optimal in men, which seemed to based off of cartoonish representations of hormones rather than scientific evidence. Of course, we now know that low-normal estrogen is not only not optimal, but potentially unhealthy. Will we soon...

I find it hard to believe that there is any one that feels good on 200mg and 3mg AI. I think they prescribe that so patients can just dose however they want accordingly.

What’s wrong with the blue pill?

@Cataceous Which of the above two theories do you think is more plausible?

Thank you @Cataceous for this article. This theory always seemed plausible to me but one thing I don’t understand is that there are several studies demonstrating symptomatic improvement with CC. You would think that if you could conduct studies showing symptomatic improvement with CC, then you...

Presumably because Repros wasn’t confident in their ability to show symptomatic benefit? Do we know for sure that’s the reason Repros gave up?

I will say that I’ve heard several doctors say that many patients do not feel better after taking Clomid. The consensus among these doctors seems to be that while major side effects of Clomid are rare, some patients feel better and almost all won’t feel as good as they would on TRT.

What was your E2?

This is the only forum where a 75mg weekly dose of T is considered normal (which is backed up by research), and not insanely low. It’s crazy how many forums and even practicing doctors who are respected in the field think 100mg-200mg of T is “normal”.

I posted something like this in a different thread but I think it probably needs its own thread: I often hear posters claim that Clomid gave them “perfect” labs but they felt no better. However, these posters often only include their TT numbers and not their E2 numbers. When asked what their E2...

You’ve seen cases where people had good numbers (and not just reported that they had good numbers) and they didn’t feel any better?

Wasn’t really referring to cases like yours since you mentioned you feel great on the Clomid.

A problem I see across forums regarding Clomid is people will say their “numbers were perfect, but got no symptom relief” but don’t post their lab results. They might mention that their TT shot up to 700 but they don’t post their estradiol results, meaning their lack of symptom relief could...

What was your E2 on the Clomid? That could have been causing your symptoms.

Thanks for the update—is your libido good on the Clomid?

What did you end up doing?