I have been on Clomid for about a year and half. I have responded super well and my numbers continue to look good. I got my IGF-1 levels checked and they were pretty low. I am looking into some peptides to increase the GH. I am sure I am not alone, curious on your experience alongside the clomid use.
This effect on IGF-1 is common, and it was observed in the clinical trials for enclomiphene as well. I've seen this in my personal use of enclomiphene. I've been using ipamorelin, 300 mcg daily. This has had a limited effect on IGF-1. YMMV. Ibutamoren is likely to be more potent, though perhaps also carrying a bit more risk. How low is your IGF-1? If it's only a little below average then it might not be worth worrying about — and it could even be viewed as anti-aging.
Seagal
Well-Known Member
"There appear to be few effects of enclomiphene citrate on other hormones, lipids, or bone variables other than a decrease in IGF-1, suggesting that hGH is influenced but not the other pituitary hormones assessed in the present study. The cause of this latter effect is uncertain, but could be related to a decrease in hGH levels or to anti-oestrogen effects on the liver. "
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Fig. 9
@Cataceous why do we see an igf-1 decrease with transdermale testosterone gel?
"Testosterone treatment of men with testosterone deficiency usually increases serum estradiol levels, and may increase hGH and IGF-1 levels. Estrogen is known to potentiate secretion of hGH and IGF-1 levels."
"We suspect that the anti-estrogen effects of enclomiphene citrate are working at either the hypothalamic-pituitary level or possibly on the liver to reduce IGF-1 levels. Unfortunately, technical issues prevented the measurement of hGH levels in the serum samples from these men. It would also be relevant to know if enclomiphene citrate treatment affects the IGF-binding proteins."
...incomplete research...
Testosterone restoration using enclomiphene citrate in men with secondary hypogonadism: a pharmacodynamic and pharmacokinetic study - PMC
To determine the pharmacodynamic profile of serum total testosterone and luteinizing hormone (LH) levels in men with secondary hypogonadism after initial and chronic daily oral doses of enclomiphene citrate vs transdermal testosterone. To determine ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Fig. 9
@Cataceous why do we see an igf-1 decrease with transdermale testosterone gel?
"Testosterone treatment of men with testosterone deficiency usually increases serum estradiol levels, and may increase hGH and IGF-1 levels. Estrogen is known to potentiate secretion of hGH and IGF-1 levels."
"We suspect that the anti-estrogen effects of enclomiphene citrate are working at either the hypothalamic-pituitary level or possibly on the liver to reduce IGF-1 levels. Unfortunately, technical issues prevented the measurement of hGH levels in the serum samples from these men. It would also be relevant to know if enclomiphene citrate treatment affects the IGF-binding proteins."
...incomplete research...
Look at the error bars. It's not statistically significant. 103 ± 46 --> 90 ± 34 mcg/L
Seagal
Well-Known Member
N=13, two time points....
What do you think this means?
Reiterating what I said: According to statistical norms the data do not demonstrate that IGF-1 has declined in the testosterone gel cohort. If you don't believe it then calculate the p-value.
Statistical significance - Wikipedia
Seagal
Well-Known Member
That I didn't read the details because I thought there is more to it. Instead of reading more I thought I ask someone who has had more exposure to the whole TRT nuances. Yep, my fault. No disagreement here
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it is at 150 ng/dl their refference is from 63- 330 I believe on these labs. The z score was at -.2 which is on the lower end for sure of the reference range. I am also 26 years old.
Although lowish for your age, this isn't so low that I would worry much about heath issues. If you have symptoms such as reduced bone density or slow healing then you might consider trying one of the GH secretagogues. But if you're otherwise healthy then I would put it aside and continue with occasional monitoring.
Its one of those things where you do not want GH low or even high. My sleep is ok, always wanted to get 8-9 hours a night. I have to put in a lot of work to get in 7 hours. My workouts havent been great , my pumps have been eh. My output and strength has not been great and that could be a function of food but things just do not feel smooth in the gym if that makes any sense. My nutrition is on point so things have felt off. I am wondering if something like MK677 on a very lose dose like 10 mgs for 12 weeks may help to bring things up. I have been on clomid for 1.5 years and do not plan on getting off yet since my positives outweigh my negatives. I respond well to it, I know it is a mix bag. I do agree with you, I just wonder if I could feel a bit better.
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