Do I Really Need TRT? Numbers Seem OK.

I can supply any other numbers that may be needed, but for the sake of keeping it short here are my Testosterone related results below.

I inquired about TRT with the usual suspects of Low T, but now that I see these results I'm starting to think maybe I shouldn't be messing with my natural levels (T is over 800ng/dl, Free T is a bit low but still normal and then my SHBG is higher, but I do eat low carb and drink way too much coffee - so I could try adjusting that.

but overall, I was still given the OK for 100mg of test a week but now after seeing my levels I'm a bit hesitant on messing with them for 100mg of Test which in theory would only really bring me back to to normal, which I'm at anyway? Aren't I?

results below.

AudioStuff said:

I can supply any other numbers that may be needed, but for the sake of keeping it short here are my Testosterone related results below.

I inquired about TRT with the usual suspects of Low T, but now that I see these results I'm starting to think maybe I shouldn't be messing with my natural levels (T is over 800ng/dl, Free T is a bit low but still normal and then my SHBG is higher, but I do eat low carb and drink way too much coffee - so I could try adjusting that.

but overall, I was still given the OK for 100mg of test a week but now after seeing my levels I'm a bit hesitant on messing with them for 100mg of Test which in theory would only really bring me back to to normal, which I'm at anyway? Aren't I?

results below.

Reproductive and Gonadal		Reading	Reference Range
Estradiol		49	<162	pmol/L
DHEA Sulphate		9.3	<15.0	umol/L
Testosterone	A	29.3	8.4-28.8	nmol/L
Testosterone Free Calculated		389	115-577	pmol/L
	Method of Vermeulen
Testosterone Bioavailable Calculated		9.1	2.7-13.5	nmol/L
	Method of Vermeulen Interpret BAT and cFT results with caution in presence of significant hypoalbuminemia.
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin	A	72.1	10.0-70.0	nmol/L

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What issues are you trying to address? Self-managing your hormones if you are in a good place to start with is generally a bad idea.

You have an estrogen deficiency, normal estrogen is 80> pmol/L for adult men. These estrogen values are fine for someone that hasn’t gone through puberty. The free testosterone values may not be normal for you.

The only way to tell is genetic testing Gene CAG repeats numbers that isn’t yet available to the general public. Total testosterone doesn’t define testosterone deficiency, the free testosterone does.

The total testosterone will be higher in men with higher SHBG. You basically have the same free testosterone levels as someone with a lower total testosterone and mid to lower end SHBG values.

Diagnosing low testosterone is not always easy or is there a clear known cutoff for each individual. This is why some providers offer a 6 month trial of TRT to see if it resolves symptoms.

If you don’t have any symptoms, you shouldn’t mess with your hormones.

Nice job on the blood work. CONGRATS....solid nunbers. Your E2 is in range as well [10 to 40 pg/ml]. Very nice FT/E2 ratio, whatever use that is. If it aint broke, why fix it? Why do you say your fT is low?

The only issue that I see is your high shbg. It may not be that big a issue right now, but eventually it may rise and become one.

aloetard said:

Your E2 is in range as well [10 to 40 pg/ml]

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A 13 estrogen value is a deficiency for most adult men. Too boot his SHBG is high binding up more of that estrogen. I had recently came on Cialis due to insane hot flashes, estrogen was in the low teens.

I recall members reporting osteoporosis with estrogen at 16.

These normal ranges are poorly defined and have nothing to due with quality of life or a healthy population.

If the OP has no symptoms he is an outlier.

Guided_by_Voices said:

What issues are you trying to address? Self-managing your hormones if you are in a good place to start with is generally a bad idea.

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Lower than usual libido, some drive and motivation issues.


About 10 years ago I did a lot of anabolic steroids (Everything + Tren - nothing since) and came off pretty abruptly so I always had a hint my levels would be messed up.

Eventually I got tested by a 3rd party TRT company and they approved me for 100mg a week + HCG and Arimidex.

After seeing my numbers im hesitant to go with the 100mg since I'm not sure messing with my natural levels would be worth that?

I'm still waiting to receive my meds from the company but while I wait I've been wondering about all of this.

What could I do about the estrogen deficiency? what would cause that?

AudioStuff said:

Lower than usual libido, some drive and motivation issues.


About 10 years ago I did a lot of anabolic steroids (Everything + Tren - nothing since) and came off pretty abruptly so I always had a hint my levels would be messed up.

Eventually I got tested by a 3rd party TRT company and they approved me for 100mg a week + HCG and Arimidex.

After seeing my numbers im hesitant to go with the 100mg since I'm not sure messing with my natural levels would be worth that?

I'm still waiting to receive my meds from the company but while I wait I've been wondering about all of this.

What could I do about the estrogen deficiency? what would cause that?

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I've always had low estrogen both before TRT and with trt. It's never been an issue with me. Strong libido, good workouts. Nothing to complain about. As long as you eat properly, work out, you should have no issues with osteoporosis.

Testosterone, Serum 1254 ng/dL range 264-916
Estradiol, Sensitive 15.1.0 pg/mL range 8.0-35.0
I've never used an AI.

No way I’d consider trt with those numbers. Yes shbg is higher than ideal but the other numbers are good. Consider yourself lucky to have those numbers naturally.

Systemlord said:

A 13 estrogen value is a deficiency for most adult men

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How did you get there?

I don't follow.

AudioStuff said:

What could I do about the estrogen deficiency? what would cause that?

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you have not presented any evidence supporting that claim.

AudioStuff said:

Eventually I got tested by a 3rd party TRT company and they approved me for 100mg a week + HCG and Arimidex.

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Insane and medical malpractice.

Lmao it's a no-brainer! with such #s i would just forget about it and try to live as healthy as possible ticking all the other boxes. Easy money for you right there. I have to take 100mg/week to get me to 29 test. You good with with such solid #s. Probably could play with SHBG and E2 to see if any manipulation makes a difference and just enjoy life without syringes and exogenous hormones, at least till later, a lot later it seems

AudioStuff said:

Lower than usual libido, some drive and motivation issues.

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Some men are in what's called the gray area, not deficient but an insufficiency and may progress to a deficiency. It's a spectrum, increasing androgens is like a raising a dimmer switch, the higher the levels, the brighter the light, the more androgenic activity and benefits.

At the end of the day quality of life is all that matters. Yeah, so wait 10-15 years until things get worse, then you can think about TRT and get your motivation and libido back to youthful levels and feel young again because that makes sense doesn't it.

Everyone thinks their going to live to be old age and retire, now is your time to live your life to the fullest, not later.

How old are you?

Systemlord said:

the higher the levels, the brighter the light

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Hmmm...


https://academic.oup.com/view-large/figure/59955215/eg0484704001.jpeg

AudioStuff said:

Lower than usual libido, some drive and motivation issues.


About 10 years ago I did a lot of anabolic steroids (Everything + Tren - nothing since) and came off pretty abruptly so I always had a hint my levels would be messed up.

Eventually I got tested by a 3rd party TRT company and they approved me for 100mg a week + HCG and Arimidex.

After seeing my numbers im hesitant to go with the 100mg since I'm not sure messing with my natural levels would be worth that?

I'm still waiting to receive my meds from the company but while I wait I've been wondering about all of this.

What could I do about the estrogen deficiency? what would cause that?

Click to expand...

I have t low E2 also so I am trying to raise it myself. Some things that can lower estrogen are common supplements like zinc, so I would review what you're taking and see if anything blocks the aromatase enzyme. While it's possible your issues are driven by T, going with TRT can cause other issues (erection issues for some) so I would start by reviewing everything else about your health first, and if you try anything hormonal, start with clomid or enclomiphene first, which are usually easy to discontinue. Your symptoms could be caused by a long list of things like lack of activity, poor sleep, poor nutrition (e.g. lack of omega 3 fats) , chronic infection or mold exposure, under-eating, overtraining, and other things as well, so like others said, I would look for other root-cause issues first.

No way would I screw with TRT if I had those numbers. I take it because it affords me a net benefit, but honestly, the upside better be pretty strong to compensate for shrunken nuts and likely sterility. Keep your body clean and figure something else out.

aloetard said:

Insane and medical malpractice.

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What He^ said. Any doctor that saw those labs and prescribed you testosterone should have his license revoked.

Once you start down the path of TRT, you are altering your natural balance. That is a good thing for those who need it, and a very unwise move for those that don't. Your labs look great, don't start tinkering with your hormones as it will not likely lead to a positive place.

Loss of libido and motivation can be caused by a multitude of factors. Also, all of those factors may be interconnected. ALWAYS try the natural approach first, lifestyle changes, dietary changes, emotional and psychological changes... take inventory of your current state and note any adverse factors. Make changes to any negatives noted.

Age is also a factor that needs to be addressed. Any advice given to anyone needs to have the age equation applied.

From my personal experience, most of the ailments reported by people are from toxic lifestyles and unreasonable expectations. Again... that pesky age factor. Things do change as we age.

My personal story regarding TRT is a good example of a really dumb move. In my 40's (yes, I am an old guy) I started looking into hormonal enhancement. My labs at the time were great, really great as a matter of fact as I have been a very solid health enthusiast and a lifelong gym rat with good genetics. But... I read a few books that were popular and "hot" at the time and thought I needed to be proactive. I started on TRT along with HCG and an AI which was the protocol of the day. All of this was in an effort to increase and maximize my hormonal profile. I had no symptoms of "low T" (God, I hate that phrase). I was going to make myself supernatural. Well... 20 plus years later, I am still on TRT and have dialed in a fairly decent protocol. BUT, and this is a VERY BIG BUT (I like big butts, I cannot lie) I could have waited another 10-15 years to start TRT, or perhaps not ever start to begin with. I went through all of the missteps that every other TRT user has complained about. Did I learn a few things? Yes. The first and foremost thing is that "If it aint broke, don't fix it".

Neurotransmitter imbalance is the likely cause of most of the common complaints you see on these forums. Lifestyles, environmental factors, stress and other things can get them off balance. The VERY good thing about this is that with some changes, they can be corrected. Forming new and positive neuropathways is a very solid way to regain balance in your life. Remove any toxic factors and start making new positive changes. The human body is a miraculous thing and has natural ways of repairing itself. This includes your brain and emotional health.


An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life. “A fight is going on inside me,” he said to the boy.

“It is a terrible fight, and it is between two wolves. One is evil – he is anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority, and ego.” He continued, “The other is good – he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith. The same fight is going on inside you – and inside every other person, too.”

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

The old Cherokee simply replied, “The one you feed.”