Water Retention While on TRT May Only Occur to Certain Men

[Gman86]

@Nelson Vergel I can post another video I just watched with him where he goes over the mechanisms by which growth hormone, and even dht derivatives, can increase water retention, just like u mentioned. He’s not saying that E2 is the main driver of water retention. He’s just saying that E2 is one cause of water retention, and that many other compounds increase water retention as well. Luckily, a lot of them act on similar pathways to do so, and he explains in other vids how to counteract these effects in the healthiest ways possible. He’s one of the biggest advocates of Telmisartan that I’ve come across. He likes to mainly use that, along with a few other methods, to decrease water retention in guys using HRT or just anabolics in general.


I’ve followed his work for quite a while, and I really think u have a lot more in common with him than u realize, and would agree with most of his views, if u watched his stuff or ever got to talk with him directly.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I think I will shut up when I see data on the use of anastrozole to reduce TRT-related water retention. There is none.

In fact, women exposed to larger AI doses for breast cancer treatment do better when a diuretic is added to the AI to decrease joint pain related to fluid retention in the joints.

"Morales et al., (2008) in a prospective study included postmenopausal patients with early breast cancer receiving either tamoxifen or an AI; an MRI of both hands and wrists were performed: AI users were more likely to develop an enhancement of the synovium, increase in intra-articular fluid, and tenosynovial changes with contrast enhancement and fluid in the tendon sheath. To our knowledge, this is the first prospective study investigating the role of diuretics in management of AI-associated arthralgia."

The Role of Diuretics in Treatment of Aromatase Inhibitors Induced Musculoskeletal Symptoms in Women with Non Metastatic Breast Cancer - PMC

Around 50% of women receiving Aromatase Inhibitors (AIs) develop musculoskeletal symptoms which may become severe causing interruption of treatment. Patients with AI-induced arthralgia had higher rates of joint effusions and fluid in the tendons, so ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I still strongly believe that using non-MRA diuretics like amiloride is the best way to deal with TRT or anabolic-induced water retention without affecting erectile function on insulin sensitivity. Amiloride plus losartan or telmisartan would also work if blood pressure is an issue.

Reference: Hypertension medications and erectile dysfunction

 

[Gman86]

I think I will shut up when I see data on the use of anastrozole to reduce TRT-related water retention. There is none.

In fact, women exposed to larger AI doses for breast cancer treatment do better when a diuretic is added to the AI to decrease joint pain related to fluid retention in the joints.

"Morales et al., (2008) in a prospective study included postmenopausal patients with early breast cancer receiving either tamoxifen or an AI; an MRI of both hands and wrists were performed: AI users were more likely to develop an enhancement of the synovium, increase in intra-articular fluid, and tenosynovial changes with contrast enhancement and fluid in the tendon sheath. To our knowledge, this is the first prospective study investigating the role of diuretics in management of AI-associated arthralgia."

The Role of Diuretics in Treatment of Aromatase Inhibitors Induced Musculoskeletal Symptoms in Women with Non Metastatic Breast Cancer - PMC

Around 50% of women receiving Aromatase Inhibitors (AIs) develop musculoskeletal symptoms which may become severe causing interruption of treatment. Patients with AI-induced arthralgia had higher rates of joint effusions and fluid in the tendons, so ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It only makes sense that an ai would reduce water retention since E2 increases it. E2 might not be the main driver of water retention, but there’s no denying that it increases it to a certain degree. But nobody can argue that an ai is a very poor choice, in regards to trying to lower water retention. To give up all the benefits of E2, just to decrease water retention, when there’s many other healthier ways to do so, doesnt make any sense.

 

[equel]

Lol rest assured e2 increase water retention.

 

[madman]

Lol rest assured e2 increase water retention.

Must have gone over your head!

 

[TorontoTRT]

E2 does not increase water retention. It’s caused by dht and electrolyte imbalance. I run E2 between 70-100. Not one ounce of water retention.

 

[eyeheartny]

E2 does not increase water retention. It’s caused by dht and electrolyte imbalance. I run E2 between 70-100. Not one ounce of water retention.

Which electrolytes can help shift the balance toward holding less water? Potassium, right? Any others?

 

[madman]

Which electrolytes can help shift the balance toward holding less water? Potassium, right? Any others?

Look over the threads.

post #3

Edema on TRT

I take 100 mg Test Cyp once a week. I seem to get edema around day 5 thru 7. Then when I take my next shot it goes away. I would have thought edema would be worse when test levels are higher but seems to be just the opposite for me. Any ideas why or anyone else experience this? Thanks

www.excelmale.com

Everyone is too caught up on extra-cellular water (between the muscle/skin) which can cause bloating/puffiness yet all AAS will result in increased intracellular water (inside the muscle cell) let alone increased glycogen storage which will make the muscle cell bigger/fuller/harder!




ANDROGENS

*Fluid and electrolyte disturbances- Retention of sodium, chloride, water, potassium, calcium, and inorganic phosphates.

 

[equel]

E2 does not increase water retention. It’s caused by dht and electrolyte imbalance. I run E2 between 70-100. Not one ounce of water retention.

Must have gone over your head!

TRT community keep getting more and more redicilous by the day. Now you even disagree with the OBVIOUS FACT that e2 DO INDEED increase water retention, EVERYONE who have done a body building show know this. U think theres a freaking reason they use AIs to nuke ur estrogen 1 week before the show? Hmm I wonder why that might be?

HMM I wonder why when u let ur e2 climb, then take an AI, u start pissing like mad and SUDDENLY u lose a couple lbs of WATER .. HMM I wonder why?

MAYBE ESTROGEN, MAYBE


Jesus christ, this freaking community getting worse by the day.

 

[equel]

It only makes sense that an ai would reduce water retention since E2 increases it. E2 might not be the main driver of water retention, but there’s no denying that it increases it to a certain degree. But nobody can argue that an ai is a very poor choice, in regards to trying to lower water retention. To give up all the benefits of E2, just to decrease water retention, when there’s many other healthier ways to do so, doesnt make any sense.

Yeah, no point listening to the vaste majority of people in this community, they know literally nothing, they have zero real life experience, now they claim e2 do not increase water retention, hahaha!!!

Welcome to the internet boys

 

[madman]

TRT community keep getting more and more redicilous by the day. Now you even disagree with the OBVIOUS FACT that e2 DO INDEED increase water retention, EVERYONE who have done a body building show know this. U think theres a freaking reason they use AIs to nuke ur estrogen 1 week before the show? Hmm I wonder why that might be?

HMM I wonder why when u let ur e2 climb, then take an AI, u start pissing like mad and SUDDENLY u lose a couple lbs of WATER .. HMM I wonder why?

MAYBE ESTROGEN, MAYBE


Jesus christ, this freaking community getting worse by the day.

Again must have clearly gone over your head!

Who stated estradiol plays no role?

Much more going on when it comes to water retention (extra/intracellular).

Diuretics anyone!

Give your head a shake.

 

[madman]

Yeah, no point listening to the vaste majority of people in this community, they know literally nothing, they have zero real life experience, now they claim e2 do not increase water retention, hahaha!!!

Welcome to the internet boys

Still, popping your mug on the forum.

Putting words in people's mouths now are we?

Go play!

 

[equel]

Again must have clearly gone over your head!

Who stated estradiol plays no role?

Much more going on when it comes to water retention (extra/intracellular).

Diuretics anyone!

Give your head a shake.

Yeah thats true, Im a nutcase this night for sure.

However, to be serious, isnt diuretics uh, dangerous? Ive heard its bad stuff for you, maybe thats a lie, or maybe its better than atleast AI.

 

[madman]

View attachment 19809

Yeah, no point listening to the vaste majority of people in this community, they know literally nothing, they have zero real life experience, now they claim e2 do not increase water retention, hahaha!!!

Welcome to the internet boys

Might wanna renege on that one champ!

 

[madman]

TRT community keep getting more and more redicilous by the day. Now you even disagree with the OBVIOUS FACT that e2 DO INDEED increase water retention, EVERYONE who have done a body building show know this. U think theres a freaking reason they use AIs to nuke ur estrogen 1 week before the show? Hmm I wonder why that might be?

HMM I wonder why when u let ur e2 climb, then take an AI, u start pissing like mad and SUDDENLY u lose a couple lbs of WATER .. HMM I wonder why?

MAYBE ESTROGEN, MAYBE


Jesus christ, this freaking community getting worse by the day.

TorontoTRT said:
E2 does not increase water retention. It’s caused by dht and electrolyte imbalance. I run E2 between 70-100. Not one ounce of water retention.


You can call him out on this one champ do not put me in the same motherf**n boat!

Tread lightly before you start putting words in people's mouths!

 

[equel]

alright ima just take a nap

 

[Systemlord]

Swelling is one of TRT's most troublesome and hard to manage side effects.

I never get swelling on TRT, but I do get fluid in my body that doesn't swell in one particular area, instead when fluid starts building up in my body, my hands when at my sides you'll see my hands red which you can clearly see, my knuckles and fingers hurt and if I raise my hands above my head, you can see the redness in my hands drain down my arms and hands no longer hurt, that is until I lower my hands again.

This fluid retention also if action isn't taken when these issue arise, my skin will start to take ona red look and skin will start drying out.

I have had these problems before on many protocols, including injections when my E2 was 28, proving it wasn't E2 related.

Dandelion root is the only things that gets rid of all of these issues and fast! My skin suddenly becomes hydrated again.

I only need to take dandelion root once or twice a week.

 

[Gman86]

Yeah, no point listening to the vaste majority of people in this community, they know literally nothing, they have zero real life experience, now they claim e2 do not increase water retention, hahaha!!!

Welcome to the internet boys

Hahah, just because one person is lucky and doesn’t experience water retention with higher levels of E2, and now thinks that’s the case for every single guy, don’t let it get u down about the whole community lol. But I know what ur saying. Obv as E2 goes up, ur going to hold more water, it’s just how the body works. Same with carbs. Carbs make the body retain water. The amount of water in each scenario is obv going to be different for every individual. There’s gonna be guys that are absolutely shredded while eating as many carbs as they want, there’s always gonna be tons of genetic outliers. The most important thing is to not use our personal reference points as the end all be all for how everyone is going to react to certain things. We can use our reference points as a guide, to a certain degree, but we can’t ever generalize based on our own personal reference points, like this guy is obv doing. Don’t let him bother u or get u down lol, I’m sure he means well. It’s not even debatable that as E2 goes up, it’s gonna cause some level of water retention. It’s just basic anatomy and physiology. It’s to the degree at which E2 causes water retention that is debatable. But again, it’s probably a pointless debate, due to there just being too many factors that dictate how each individual is going to retain water, even if they had identical total and free E2 levels.

 

[Cynice49]

Anyone notice an increased amount of water retention w/ daily injections? Switched to 16mg test C daily for the past 12 weeks, (which is a lower dose than I did at 3.5d) and I've noticed my skin is more easily leaving with marks , and redness.