Switching from sustanon to enanthate

[ivankonst2017]

Hello forum. Im switching from sustanon(122.5mg split in EOD) to enanthate(130mg split in two). I currently feel very bad.

On sustanon I felt good but needed to inject in EOD cause the prop causes me spikes and Im sick of so much IM injectinons(sub q doesnt work for me). Also Im 20 percent BF and cannot use 29g for IM so Im doing it with 3/4 or 1 inch.
The bottom line I want less pinning in the muscles.

Im now 2.5 weeks into the new protocol and feel like crap(very irritable and emotionally unstable). Is it normal? I guess my body is disturbed from the change of rythms of the esters and maybe my levels have fallen off? However I have much better performance at the gym, bigger than anytime on sustanon.

What was your experience with that? Do you think with enanthate 2 times a week I can achieve stable levels? I know it has shorter half life than cyp, no pharmaceutical cypionate where I live and I dont wanna use underground stuff. My SHBG before switching was 26, I guess now it will be lower

 

[madman]

Hello forum. Im switching from sustanon(122.5mg split in EOD) to enanthate(130mg split in two). I currently feel very bad.

On sustanon I felt good but needed to inject in EOD cause the prop causes me spikes and Im sick of so much IM injectinons(sub q doesnt work for me). Also Im 20 percent BF and cannot use 29g for IM so Im doing it with 3/4 or 1 inch.
The bottom line I want less pinning in the muscles.

Im now 2.5 weeks into the new protocol and feel like crap(very irritable and emotionally unstable). Is it normal? I guess my body is disturbed from the change of rythms of the esters and maybe my levels have fallen off? However I have much better performance at the gym, bigger than anytime on sustanon.

What was your experience with that? Do you think with enanthate 2 times a week I can achieve stable levels? I know it has shorter half life than cyp, no pharmaceutical cypionate where I live and I dont wanna use underground stuff. My SHBG before switching was 26, I guess now it will be lower

I currently feel very bad.

post #3 (sums it up)

Just started TRT - Loving it so far!

Hi all. I am a 46 year old male from Calgary, Canada. I just started TRT 8 days ago. My doctor has me on 60x2/week of testosterone enanthate. I've read that many of the benefits of TRT take months to manifest but I'm feeling way better already. In fact, my libido felt noticeably higher less than...

www.excelmale.com

If you are not willing to put in the time to give the protocol a fighting chance then you are setting yourself up for failure.

Patience is key when it comes to trt!


Im now 2.5 weeks into the new protocol and feel like crap(very irritable and emotionally unstable). Is it normal?

2.5 weeks let alone 3,4,5,6 means nothing and the following 2-3 months after blood levels have stabilized is what separates the boys from the men.


Do you think with enanthate 2 times a week I can achieve stable levels? I know it has shorter half life than cyp,

Although there can still be a big difference in peak--->trough when injecting enanthate twice weekly (every 3.5 days) especially when IM.....many do well injecting twice weekly.

I have been injecting TE strictly sub-q (abdominal) twice weekly (every 3.5 days) for almost 5 years and can easily hit a high-end trough TT/FT level.

Regarding half-life, TC/TE are basically interchangeable!

 

[gerardo]

On sustanon I felt good but needed to inject in EOD cause the prop causes me spikes and Im sick of so much IM injectinons(sub q doesnt work for me). Also Im 20 percent BF and cannot use 29g for IM so Im doing it with 3/4 or 1 inch.
The bottom line I want less pinning in the muscles.

For curiosity. Didn't the subq work because of your body fat?

 

[ivankonst2017]

For curiosity. Didn't the subq work because of your body fat?

I think you nailed it. Also my observations point people with lower body fat do better on sub-q.

Also I get nodules and maybe this has also something to do with.

 

[ivankonst2017]

Regarding half-life, TC/TE are basically interchangeable!

Ive heard that, but I read everywhere enanthate is pointed to have a bit shorter half life.
For example wikipedia gives to cypionate 7-8 days, to enanthate 4-5. Ive also read for enanthate 10-12 days on other places and so on.

Not sure which source is more accurate, every source gives different half lives.

 

[ivankonst2017]

2.5 weeks let alone 3,4,5,6 means nothing and the following 2-3 months after blood levels have stabilized is what separates the boys from the men.

So for example if on the mark of week 8 I feel bad, or feel unstable day to due to injection frequency lets say, or my blood levels are lower than Im used to and I feel some symptoms back, should I wait more or do a correction of protocol?

Just for the record with sustanon as soon as I achieve stable blood levels or even before that I start to feel good.

I took the gamble with enanthate to avoid doing a lot of wholes for the rest of my life. But sustanon kinda gives me a specific sense of well being that I havent yet experienced with enanthate. I fear that my body may need this mixture of esters and the stimulation they cause to feel good, but the propionate hits me very hard and this means frequent injecting for the rest of my life. I had one try with enanthate last summer - I was injecting ED sub q, and at the mark of week 8 I felt extremely bad, lethargic and apathetic. But as I said in another topic later I tried a protocol with sustanon sub q that didnt work as well, until I switched to IM and all positives of TRT came in quickly then. That is why I deemed enanthate as a generally more preferred ester deserves a second chance with me.

I also have a suspicion I may have some issue with some of the compounds in this particular enanthate, but it is the only pharmaceutical abailable here. I get sleepy and low energy after injection, it lasts for at least 12 hours. I can only hope this will pass away with time. Ive never get such sleepiness after injecting sustanon, just on the contrary. The enanthate is with olive oil, this brand specially has very high reputation among the bodybuilding community in Eastern Europe.

Sorry if this became too complex, im happy there are knowledgeable people like you here that I can share with.

Ive also done a lot of reading and researched and helped many people around me here(no TRT doctors in my country), but I cannot dial in myself My body seems to be overly sensitive to all outside compounds, even though Ive never had the most common TRT side effects like elevated blood counts or e2 issues.

 

[madman]

Ive heard that, but I read everywhere enanthate is pointed to have a bit shorter half life.
For example wikipedia gives to cypionate 7-8 days, to enanthate 4-5. Ive also read for enanthate 10-12 days on other places and so on.

Not sure which source is more accurate, every source gives different half lives.

post #12

Confused about Testosterone Enanthate Half Life

Am I confused about Enanthate being a faster acting ester than Cyp? Like in the middle between Prop and Cyp which I had a bad experience with (My daily Testosterone Propionate diary) Seems like I have it stuck in my head with Test-E being more about ~48hrs but I can't seem to find that info...

www.excelmale.com

Peak & Trough levels for TRT

Hi and Happy New Year ...... I'm injecting Xyosted once per week ( Friday morning, 100 mg). I'm interested in know my Peak & Trough levels. I understand that for the Trough level I need to get the bloodwork just before I apply the Xyosted.... But I'm not sure how long after I apply Xyosted I...

www.excelmale.com

 

[madman]

So for example if on the mark of week 8 I feel bad, or feel unstable day to due to injection frequency lets say, or my blood levels are lower than Im used to and I feel some symptoms back, should I wait more or do a correction of protocol?

Just for the record with sustanon as soon as I achieve stable blood levels or even before that I start to feel good.

I took the gamble with enanthate to avoid doing a lot of wholes for the rest of my life. But sustanon kinda gives me a specific sense of well being that I havent yet experienced with enanthate. I fear that my body may need this mixture of esters and the stimulation they cause to feel good, but the propionate hits me very hard and this means frequent injecting for the rest of my life. I had one try with enanthate last summer - I was injecting ED sub q, and at the mark of week 8 I felt extremely bad, lethargic and apathetic. But as I said in another topic later I tried a protocol with sustanon sub q that didnt work as well, until I switched to IM and all positives of TRT came in quickly then. That is why I deemed enanthate as a generally more preferred ester deserves a second chance with me.

I also have a suspicion I may have some issue with some of the compounds in this particular enanthate, but it is the only pharmaceutical abailable here. I get sleepy and low energy after injection, it lasts for at least 12 hours. I can only hope this will pass away with time. Ive never get such sleepiness after injecting sustanon, just on the contrary. The enanthate is with olive oil, this brand specially has very high reputation among the bodybuilding community in Eastern Europe.

Sorry if this became too complex, im happy there are knowledgeable people like you here that I can share with.

Ive also done a lot of reading and researched and helped many people around me here(no TRT doctors in my country), but I cannot dial in myself My body seems to be overly sensitive to all outside compounds, even though Ive never had the most common TRT side effects like elevated blood counts or e2 issues.

So for example if on the mark of week 8 I feel bad, or feel unstable day to due to injection frequency lets say, or my blood levels are lower than Im used to and I feel some symptoms back, should I wait more or do a correction of protocol?

Again the first 6 weeks means nothing when looking at the bigger picture.

Hormones are in flux during the weeks leading up until blood levels stabilize (4-6 weeks TC/TE).

The body is trying to adjust during the transition.

Once blood levels have stabilized the following 2-3 months is the most critical time period as it will take time for the body to adapt to the new levels and this is when one should gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms and overall well-being.

If after 6 weeks whether starting trt or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) you feel horrible and labs show that TT/FT levels are sub-par then it would make sense to increase the T-dose slightly as it would be pointless to run sub-par T levels for the next few months.

The first 6 weeks are misleading and many make the critical mistake of tweaking a protocol way too soon (dose T/injection frequency).

 

[gerardo]

So for example if on the mark of week 8 I feel bad, or feel unstable day to due to injection frequency lets say, or my blood levels are lower than Im used to and I feel some symptoms back, should I wait more or do a correction of protocol?

Just for the record with sustanon as soon as I achieve stable blood levels or even before that I start to feel good.

I took the gamble with enanthate to avoid doing a lot of wholes for the rest of my life. But sustanon kinda gives me a specific sense of well being that I havent yet experienced with enanthate. I fear that my body may need this mixture of esters and the stimulation they cause to feel good, but the propionate hits me very hard and this means frequent injecting for the rest of my life. I had one try with enanthate last summer - I was injecting ED sub q, and at the mark of week 8 I felt extremely bad, lethargic and apathetic. But as I said in another topic later I tried a protocol with sustanon sub q that didnt work as well, until I switched to IM and all positives of TRT came in quickly then. That is why I deemed enanthate as a generally more preferred ester deserves a second chance with me.

I also have a suspicion I may have some issue with some of the compounds in this particular enanthate, but it is the only pharmaceutical abailable here. I get sleepy and low energy after injection, it lasts for at least 12 hours. I can only hope this will pass away with time. Ive never get such sleepiness after injecting sustanon, just on the contrary. The enanthate is with olive oil, this brand specially has very high reputation among the bodybuilding community in Eastern Europe.

Sorry if this became too complex, im happy there are knowledgeable people like you here that I can share with.

Ive also done a lot of reading and researched and helped many people around me here(no TRT doctors in my country), but I cannot dial in myself My body seems to be overly sensitive to all outside compounds, even though Ive never had the most common TRT side effects like elevated blood counts or e2 issues.

Where do you apply the IM injection and which needle do you use? I'm building up the courage to apply IM ..

 

[ivankonst2017]

Where do you apply the IM injection and which needle do you use? I'm building up the courage to apply IM ..

I do in the delts with 3/4 27g and in the ventroglute or ass with 1 inch 26g. Basically now I rotate 4 locations and every location
is hit on every two weeks. Bear in mind every muscle has different absorbtion rate, how much different exactly - no idea.

Ive also done in middle quads, upper quads and chest in the past, one doctor told me chest is very dangerous not to do it but it was my favourite cite

 

[M.J]

I am doing now 75mg sustanon once weekly my level :

Total T :trough 18 nmol/l

I feel very good over all. Yes libido is not the best but I guess viagra and cialis is helping a bit.

 

[gerardo]

I am doing now 75mg sustanon once weekly my level :

Total T :trough 18 nmol/l

I feel very good over all. Yes libido is not the best but I guess viagra and cialis is helping a bit.

Does sustanon once a week make a big difference at the peak? Propionate half-life is very low. 1 day.

 

[ivankonst2017]

Does sustanon once a week make a big difference at the peak? Propionate half-life is very low. 1 day.

I think the issue with sustanon on rare injections is not so much the difference between peak and trough, but because the decline and release of test in blood is NOT linear like cypionate or enathate.

 

[gerardo]

I think the issue with sustanon on rare injections is not so much the difference between peak and trough, but because the decline and release of test in blood is NOT linear like cypionate or enathate.

Yes

 

[gerardo]

I do in the delts with 3/4 27g and in the ventroglute or ass with 1 inch 26g. Basically now I rotate 4 locations and every location
is hit on every two weeks. Bear in mind every muscle has different absorbtion rate, how much different exactly - no idea.

Ive also done in middle quads, upper quads and chest in the past, one doctor told me chest is very dangerous not to do it but it was my favourite cite

Where do you find a syringe with a needle of this size? Here is the 26g 1/2, 24g 3/4

 

[ivankonst2017]

Where do you find a syringe with a needle of this size? Here is the 26g 1/2, 24g 3/4

You mean the needles? The syringe is separate 1ml insulin, they are not attached.
Here 27g 3/4 needles is very common, 26g 1 inch is hard to find I order from UK, when I dont have I use 25g 1 inch. I live in Bulgaria

 

[ivankonst2017]

@madman @Cataceous Also what do you think about the issue that I get sleepy after injecting the new enanthate? I guess some kind of reaction of the body from some if the compounds?
A friend of mine who used the same product reported to me he felt the same way the first 1-2 weeks but after that it has passed away
The enanhate is with olive oil and this is the only thing I know.
I found there is another enanthate I can order when time has passed and the issue persists, but it is again with olive oil

 

[M.J]

Does sustanon once a week make a big difference at the peak? Propionate half-life is very low. 1 day.

I don’t understand

 

[ivankonst2017]

Exactly 4 weeks since starting the new protocol.
In terms of mood I fee rather bad compared to how I felt on sustanon - irritable, moody, easy to burst, apathetic and depressed. In fact every time Ive tried a long single ester(enanthate or cypionate) I experience a strange kind of apathy. I hope after 4-5 weeks this will disappear, I will reevaluate then.
The positives - better strength at gym, better sleep, better errection quality and better appetite control. But mentally and in terms of mood its crap.

I suspect by high I feel my total t levels right now are supraphysiological, pulse also a bit elevated and gym strength is awesome. I guess enanthate is build up and sustanon not yet clear.

If by week 8-9 I still dont feel good do you think switching to another brand of enanthate with different oil(castor) witho NO CHANGE in protocol may possibly stand a chance of bringing better results? I know its not evidence based, but heard many stories like that...

 

[ivkonst2017]

Hello. Im sorry for this but I needed to make a new account, turned out for the old one I have mistaken the email, couldnt resetted my password and then found out I have messed the email. Is it possible some admin to transfer all my opinions from the old account to this one and delete the old?

About my protocol - I have done 8 weeks on it. To be honest I felt really awesome in week 5, after that experienced a huge decline in energy and well being and erection quality and started to get some improvements over the last week in all departments. I also had issues with HCG and the quality of the bacteriostatic water(I will make another thread for this issue). As I said in the last week things started to get better. Also in weeks 6 and 7 very oddly I started to feel a surge of energy and libido after injection which made me think I may need to increase the frequency to lets say 3 times a week. But in the last week that disappeared, also the blood work shows very stable levels one day after injection and before the next injection. I guess there might be some fluctuation, but couldnt catch it on paper. I did total t 24h after injection hoping to get the peak, and the detailed blood work just before the next injection with total t as well:

15.04.2021 - 7.5 weeks on 65mg enanthate bi-weekly PEAK, 100 ui HCG daily
Testosterone	S	46.58	nmol/l	9.90 - 27.80	ECLIA
Total Testosterone US Units	S	1353.46	ng/dl	300 - 1500	ECLIA
17.04.2021 - 8 weeks on 65mg enanthate bi-weekly TROUGH, 100 ui HCG daily
Testosterone	S	50.25	nmol/l	9.90 - 27.80	ECLIA
Total Testosterone US Units	S	1449	ng/dl	300 - 1500	ECLIA
Calculated Free Testosteron	S		ng/dl		ECLIA
Албумин	S	45	g/l	35 - 52	PHOT
SHBG	S		nmol/l	18.30 - 54.10	ECLIA
Estradiol	S	65.05	ng/L	7.63 - 42.60	ECLIA
TSH	S	1.02	µIU/ml	0.27 - 4.20	ECLIA
Free Т4 (fT4)	S	16.27	ng/l	9.30 - 17	ECLIA
Free T3 (fT3)	S	3.03	ng/l	2 - 4.40	ECLIA
Cortisol (morning serum)	S	412.8	nmol/l	133 - 537	ECLIA
Prolactin	S	313.2	mIU/L	84.80 - 318	ECLIA
Leukocytes	EB	6.69	G/l	3.5 - 10.5	DC+LD
Erythrocytes	EB	5.52	T/l	4.5 - 5.90	DC-det.
Hemoglobin	EB	166	g/l	140 - 180	SLS
Hematocrit	EB	0.48	l/l	0.40 - 0.53	calc
MCV	EB	87.1	fl	80 - 96	Calc.
MCH	EB	30.1	pg	28 - 33	Calc.
MCHC	EB	345	g/l	300 - 360	Calc.
Tromobociti	EB	206	G/l	140 - 440	DC-det.
RDW-SD	EB	38.5	fl	35.10 - 43.90	calc.
RDW-CV	EB	11.9	%	11 - 14.40	calc.
PDW	EB	11.9	fl	9 - 17	calc.
MPV	EB	10.4	fl	9.40 - 12.40	calc.
P-LCR	EB	27.3	%	13 - 43	calc.
PCT (tromobokrit)	EB	0.21	l/l	0.17 - 0.35	calc.
Total Cholesterol (Chol.)	S	4.24	mmol/l	3.5 - 5.20	PHOT
LDL-Cholesterol (LDL-C)	S	2.91	mmol/l	0 - 3.35	PHOT
Trigleciridi (Tg)	S	0.64	mmol/l	0 - 1.70	PHOT
Albumin	S	45	g/l	35 - 52	PHOT
Bilirubin, total	S	45.9	µmol/l	0 - 21	PHOT
Bilirubin, direct	S	10.7	µmol/l	0 - 8.5	PHOT
AsaT	S	15	IU/l	0 - 40	IFCC
AlaT	S	17	IU/l	0 - 41	IFCC
GGT	S	11	IU/l	0 - 60	IFCC
Na +	S	136	mmol/l	136 - 145	ISE
Cl -	S	99	mmol/l	98 - 107	ISE
Calcium	S	2.3	mmol/l	2.15 - 2.5	CPC
Magnesium (Mg)	S	0.75	mmol/l	0.66 - 1.07	PHOT
Iron	S	29.5	µmol/l	7.2 - 27.7	PHOT
CRP - quantative measurement	S	<1.0	mg/l	0 - 5	TURB
PSA	S	0.6	ng/ml	0.01 - 1.40	ECLIA

My total t might be a bit high(I usually have discovered to feel best at 1200-1300) but still I do not see it as enough reason to change protocol and I think sustanon may be YET TO CLEAR completely. As I have read here somewhere it should take around 5 half lives for a compound to clear, which should mean 10 weeks for sustanon, right?

I have bolded the blood markers that cause me a bit concern. About the iron - since I have started a few times IM injections it has been slightly elevated. Last time I checked it was 18. I think when I settle enough time on the protocol it should decline again, hopefully. @madman how dangerous you think such levels of iron can be, I hope temporarily?

Also about the bilirubin it is a bit of a mystery. No doctor can tell me exactly why it is elevated, I have consulted a few very experienced specialists about this. My endo that has prescribed me TRT and let me to self manage it thinks I may have some birth defect about clearing bilirubin provided my liver enzymes seem fine, I do not drink, eat healthy, have never used recreational drugs and it has been randomly elevated even before TRT, one time it was 10 times the reference range 4 years ago. As medications Im taking 2x500mg metformin(for appetite control purposes, Im not notably IR except being around 22-24 percent body fat) and 2 x 0.250 mg of cabergoline(due to empty cella syndrome, started before TRT). What do you think can be the reason for this bilirubin