Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
27 gauge 1/2 inch on shoulders
Principles of Testosterone and hCG Injection Technique
- Thread starter madman
- Start date
madman
Super Moderator
Most are using 27-31G and there should be no issue with using 30-31G even with big pharma cyp which uses cottonseed as the carrier oil.
Some may find when using the higher-end gauges that drawing/injecting may be slower but keep in mind that most injecting EOD let alone daily are drawing/injecting a minimal volume of the oily solution.
The most commonly prescribed esterified T (TC/TE) is the 200mg/mL strength.
Most men on trt are injecting 100-200 mg T/week and even then most would never need the higher end dose to achieve a healthy, high, let alone in many cases absurdly high FT.
Some may need the higher end dose but it is far from common.
Many can easily achieve such FT levels injecting 100-150 mg T/week whether split twice weekly (every 3.5 days), M/W/F, or EOD let alone daily.
Many injecting dailies are using .05 mL/5 units (10 mg T)--->.12 mL/12 units (24 mg T).
Some outliers are using less.
As you can see the volume of oil being drawn/injected is minimal.
And here I am on the fence, leaning towards going with 27g, concerned that a 29g might be problematic. 29g, let alone 31g, sure would make daily or EOD injections easier to run with.
Of course as not only will you minimize any pain/scar tissue, especially when poking yourself frequently but you can also draw/inject using the same syringe (fixed needle) let alone minimize the loss of any wasted medication from using an LDS (low dead space) fixed insulin syringe.
No problem pushing cyp. oil through these 31g needles? And here I am on the fence, leaning towards going with 27g, concerned that a 29g might be problematicFor Canadians on trt:
Syringes (Sure Comfort, BD, Terumo) FREE SHIPPING
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BD ALCOHOL SWABS
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BD SAFE-CLIP Needle Clipping & Storage Device (Stores 1,500 Needles)
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My Everything Store - Canada's largest online supplier of medical supplies
One of the largest online supplier of medical supplies & home medical equipment
Sure Comfort Insulin Syringes 27-31 gauge (1/2",5/16") box 100
View attachment 10547
Perfect for subcutaneous injections (low dose T daily/EOD)
BD INSULIN SYRINGE 0.5ML, 31G x 6MM NEEDLE
View attachment 10545
BD INSULIN SYRINGE 0.3ML, 31G x 8MM NEEDLE
View attachment 10546
Where does this protocol put your TT and FT and estradiol at trough, with what SHBG? Do you include any ancillaries, such as HCG and AI?
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T
tareload
Guest
What's your approx peak and trough TT levels with this dosing schedule? Thanks in advance.
SHBG and same with fT if you got the data.
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madman
Super Moderator
hCG 500IU twice weekly and never used an AI.
trough
TT 900 ng/dL
FT 30-34 ng/dL
SHBG 32 nmol/L
Estradiol 39 pg/mL
That's awesome, it looks like you're dialed in nicely! Hematocrit, lipids, etc. look good with this too, I hope. Thanks for sharing!
madman
Super Moderator
8.1 Injection area selection
A plethora of research, using various imaging techniques, has demonstrated that – regardless of age, BMI, gender, or race – skin thickness (epidermis and dermis) is relatively consistent; it ranges from 1.25 mm to 3.25 mm at its extremes but averages approximately 2 mm. (22,104-110)
*The thickness of subcutaneous tissue has a much wider variance and is related to gender, body site, and BMI. The subcutaneous layer increases proportionally with an increase in BMI (Figure 11). (22,66,106,111-113)
Figure 11. Subcutaneous tissue (in mm) in male and female adults: the mean values (bold) and ranges (in parentheses) are the results of a series of studies using ultrasound(4)
The buttocks are noted to have the thickest subcutaneous layer, followed by the abdomen, arm, and thigh. The subcutaneous thickness can vary slightly within the same anatomical area. (109) Women are noted to have approximately 5 mm greater subcutaneous fat than men with the same BMI.(1,22,65,109-114)
Best practice indicates that rates of unexplained hypoglycemia and increased glycemic variability are lower when the abdomen is used exclusively as an injection site.
1. To avoid intramuscular injection, and in consideration of safety and ease in self-injection, the abdomen, thighs, and buttocks are the recommended self-injection areas for adults. The buttocks are noted to have the thickest subcutaneous layer of these areas. (4,106,108-110)
2. The areas of injection are defined as:
• Abdomen boundaries: 1 cm above symphysis, 1 cm below lowest rib, 1 cm away from the umbilicus, and laterally at the flanks
• Thighs: upper 3rd anterior lateral aspect of both thighs
• Buttocks: posterior lateral aspect of both upper buttocks and flanks
A plethora of research, using various imaging techniques, has demonstrated that – regardless of age, BMI, gender, or race – skin thickness (epidermis and dermis) is relatively consistent; it ranges from 1.25 mm to 3.25 mm at its extremes but averages approximately 2 mm. (22,104-110)
*The thickness of subcutaneous tissue has a much wider variance and is related to gender, body site, and BMI. The subcutaneous layer increases proportionally with an increase in BMI (Figure 11). (22,66,106,111-113)
Figure 11. Subcutaneous tissue (in mm) in male and female adults: the mean values (bold) and ranges (in parentheses) are the results of a series of studies using ultrasound(4)
The buttocks are noted to have the thickest subcutaneous layer, followed by the abdomen, arm, and thigh. The subcutaneous thickness can vary slightly within the same anatomical area. (109) Women are noted to have approximately 5 mm greater subcutaneous fat than men with the same BMI.(1,22,65,109-114)
Best practice indicates that rates of unexplained hypoglycemia and increased glycemic variability are lower when the abdomen is used exclusively as an injection site.
1. To avoid intramuscular injection, and in consideration of safety and ease in self-injection, the abdomen, thighs, and buttocks are the recommended self-injection areas for adults. The buttocks are noted to have the thickest subcutaneous layer of these areas. (4,106,108-110)
2. The areas of injection are defined as:
• Abdomen boundaries: 1 cm above symphysis, 1 cm below lowest rib, 1 cm away from the umbilicus, and laterally at the flanks
• Thighs: upper 3rd anterior lateral aspect of both thighs
• Buttocks: posterior lateral aspect of both upper buttocks and flanks
T
tareload
Guest
Tool you guys can use to convert between peak/mean/trough for different injection frequencies:
Tool to Assess your TT Dose Response -- Percentile Curves
Summary: Tools to estimate your individual dose response for injectable testosterone ester in comparison to a normal distribution (95 percentile confidence estimate) of adult males (Ref). Plot below shows a summary of data from (1) clinical trials gathered from the literature + (2)...
forums.t-nation.com
Example from above:
Trough ~850
Use E3.5D frequency
Peak = 1.4 × 850 = approx 1200 ng/dl
Remember madman is estimating his fT with Tru-T. With Vermueluen his trough fT is about 20 ng/dl so equilibrium dialysis may yield less than 20. That would put his peak at 1.4 × ~20 = 28 ng,/dl.
Remind me your bump with hCG @madman and I will correct for it and add you to dose response chart if you like. Would be great to have members here on the chart as well. You should be one of the first on there with Nelson and Cataceous.
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On the equivalent of 65 mg/week testosterone cypionate I average about 800 ng/dL. That's with SHBG around 30 nMol/L.
T
tareload
Guest
Thanks. I will make the EM member data markers really pop given the amazing info all of you provide.
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