Playing with HCG gave me libido

[DaytonaJonah]

I am thinking more like maybe 500 hcg and 250 is too much and increases something very high where you don’t get this libido maybe low than 250 is a key ? I am checking this now I will see how long it will last

M.J., what you're finding is also being discussed on this thread as well:

Been on trt for 2 years and still no libido ..# libido

Hi all I went onto trt in 2017 . Doc prescribed gel for my low testosterone results. Obviously this didn't do anything so eventually I went onto nebido which was every 12 weeks then I went privately to a doctor in the UK who prescribed me testosterone cypionate and HCG.. after 2 months I had to...

www.excelmale.com

 

[M.J]

Nice! I think you're on to something with this low dose on/off HCG thing.

Finally after two years the past 3 weeks where amazing. I will see if low dose can sustain this libido increase which I feel it maybe the case.

 

[M.J]

Just a side note here I have tested progesterone after using 500 hcg and it was hitting the high limit. I remember it was exactly what the high range was. I have the reading somewhere.

 

[M.J]

To be more accurate I believe I am Between 150 and 200 hcg. It’s hard to read those small dosage.

 

[M.J]

One negative point here is erecrion is not really perfect but can be solved easily with cialis.

 

[DaytonaJonah]

One negative point here is erecrion is not really perfect but can be solved easily with cialis.

Perhaps 10mg Cialis/Tadalafil/Tadalis EOD will give you a steady state to rely on. I've done that for over a year now without any issues at all and am always ready. I'm just lacking the libido, penile sensitivity, and explosive orgasms that I once experienced when I was younger. THAT combo together with the overall health and well-being is what we're all chasing after. Glad you found a significant piece to that puzzle for yourself and have shared that here.

 

[M.J]

Perhaps 10mg Cialis/Tadalafil/Tadalis EOD will give you a steady state to rely on. I've done that for over a year now without any issues at all and am always ready. I'm just lacking the libido, penile sensitivity, and explosive orgasms that I once experienced when I was younger. THAT combo together with the overall health and well-being is what we're all chasing after. Glad you found a significant piece to that puzzle for yourself and have shared that here.

Yea I know what do you mean, cialis will be added I have tried it many times works great. I am doing 5mg from time to time but it’s perfect.
Hell is this works I may increase testosterone to 100mg weekly just to stay in better healthy range. If my reading are not that high cuz currently with 75 it’s more like lower range.

in my opinion libido is the main concern you get this right the rest can be solved.

What is your protocol ?

 

[DaytonaJonah]

Yea I know what do you mean, cialis will be added I have tried it many times works great. I am doing 5mg from time to time but it’s perfect.
Hell is this works I may increase testosterone to 100mg weekly just to stay in better healthy range. If my reading are not that high cuz currently with 75 it’s more like lower range.

in my opinion libido is the main concern you get this right the rest can be solved.

What is your protocol ?

2 months ago I was on 37.5mg EOD of Test E and found I wasn't sleeping well and was a bit too aggressive. So, I reduced the amount to 12.5mg ED and began sleeping better but was feeling "flat" emotionally and wasn't as strong in the gym. At both levels, my libido was just "fair", but not close to anything good.
I want to change to pellets so I don't have to pin ED/EOD and I've followed another guy here on the forums who has great success obtaining both well-being and great libido by moving away from injections to pellets. He's not using any AI or HCG currently and is doing well after several months on his protocol.
I want to play again with HCG to find my "sweet spot" for libido but made 2 previous attempts only to have anxiety both times. The first time put me in the emergency room after 3 days/nights with NO sleep. Not cool! Titrating up with very small amounts of HCG is my next project to see if I can sneak up on my system and see if I can tolerate it better and like you, experience it's benefits at the much smaller dosages.

 

[Gman86]

To be more accurate I believe I am Between 150 and 200 hcg. It’s hard to read those small dosage.

150-200iu total per week?

 

[M.J]

150-200iu total per week?

No EOD. just today I had maybe 150-200 injection and immediately afternoon I got this urge to have sex nooooooow.
Injected around 7:30
Urge came around 1 to 3 pm.
Urge is satisfied around 3:30

 

[M.J]

150-200iu total per week?

Maybe high progesterone or something that hcg trigger going high is causing this low libido. I guess maybe we need to experiment with HCG dosage instead of playing around with testosterone.

 

[DaytonaJonah]

Yesterday was the start of another round(3rd) of testing of HCG for me. The first 2 rounds weren't successful at all ending only in insomnia and massive anxiety.
Well, I was hoping to titrate up beginning with a very small dose of only 50UI of HCG EOD and see if my system can adjust to it, then begin to increase the amount to find the mysterious "libido" increase that many find.

NO CAN DO! Even with the very first injection of 50UI, last night was horrible. Woke up at 3am with night sweats, a racing mind, mild anxiety, and wasn't able to go back to sleep for the remainder of the night. Simply miserable.
I can confirm that I don't have any anxiety issues, have never taken depression meds, I don't have any form of clinical depression or anxiety. And yet, I cannot tolerate taking any dosage amount of HCG. This is the 3rd...and final...test for me proving that there are some guys who simply can't use HCG while on TRT.

I've been on injections now for 2 years chasing well-being and libido and while my well-being is good on T, my libido is at best only "fair", not good. I may transition over to pellets and see if that solves my issues.

 

[M.J]

Yesterday was the start of another round(3rd) of testing of HCG for me. The first 2 rounds weren't successful at all ending only in insomnia and massive anxiety.
Well, I was hoping to titrate up beginning with a very small dose of only 50UI of HCG EOD and see if my system can adjust to it, then begin to increase the amount to find the mysterious "libido" increase that many find.

NO CAN DO! Even with the very first injection of 50UI, last night was horrible. Woke up at 3am with night sweats, a racing mind, mild anxiety, and wasn't able to go back to sleep for the remainder of the night. Simply miserable.
I can confirm that I don't have any anxiety issues, have never taken depression meds, I don't have any form of clinical depression or anxiety. And yet, I cannot tolerate taking any dosage amount of HCG. This is the 3rd...and final...test for me proving that there are some guys who simply can't use HCG while on TRT.

I've been on injections now for 2 years chasing well-being and libido and while my well-being is good on T, my libido is at best only "fair", not good. I may transition over to pellets and see if that solves my issues.

Any chance you go even lower ? If anxiety is not there then this is an improvement right ?

 

[DaytonaJonah]

Any chance you go even lower ? If anxiety is not there then this is an improvement right ?

I suppose I could try to go even lower...like 10UI and see what happens. I'm not too keen on what my body does with this substance...it isn't pleasant at all!

 

[M.J]

I suppose I could try to go even lower...like 10UI and see what happens. I'm not too keen on what my body does with this substance...it isn't pleasant at all!

I haven’t read a lot of people react to hcg like you do, I wonder why this is happening.
Some People do even higher than 500 with no issues. Actually local doctors are injecting people with 2000 even 2500 twice a week at one time.

 

[DaytonaJonah]

I haven’t read a lot of people react to hcg like you do, I wonder why this is happening.
Some People do even higher than 500 with no issues. Actually local doctors are injecting people with 2000 even 2500 twice a week at one time.

I wish I knew why too. I've swung and missed with HCG 3 times. It is just not for me.

 

[madman]

I am more concerned with the following:
1- Do I have to decrease my dose to get this or maybe it’s related to testosterone dose and different from one person to another?

2-is low dose is the key or changing protocol,, for example if I took this week 250 and 500 next week will it increase libido ?
Untill now my observation is lower is better I have tried 250 for a week then 500 the week after and got nothing. However I guess I have to repeat it just to confirm.

3- and the issue of fertility I am taking fsh so hoping I am still fertile.

The main purpose of adding hCG to trt is to preserve/maintain fertility and prevent/minimize testicular atrophy.

The use of exogenous testosterone results in the suppression of ITT (intra-testicular testosterone) which is critical for sperm production.

The main goal when using hCG is to restore physiological ITT levels and in order to achieve such a minimum effective dose would be needed (125-500IU) and 250-500IU would seem to be the sweet spot.

Anything less will have a minimal impact on increasing ITT!

Other than one experiencing possible side effects from such doses (250-500IU) using anything <125IU will have a minimal impact on increasing ITT.

My reply from a previous thread where the poster asked if hCG was needed.


Depends on the individual.....Is hCG needed?

*To preserve/maintain fertility then yes.

*To prevent/minimize testicular atrophy then yes.

*To enhance mood/libido than it is not a given as some may experience such effects whereas others may feel worse-off.

*To maintain upstream hormones and possibly prevent long-term consequences for health/well-being.....you be the judge!

Effect of TRT vs hCG/FSH on upstream hormone pathways.

The role of gonadotropins in testicular and adrenal androgen biosynthesis pathways -insights from males with congenital hypogonadotropic hypogonadism on hCG/rFSH and on testosterone replacement SUMMARY Objective: To delineate the role of gonadotropins in male androgen biosynthesis pathways...

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*Take-home point:

A replacement regimen with combined hCG/rFSH mimics physiologic steroid hormone profiles better than a substitution with exogenous testosterone. The documented differences in steroid profiles on testosterone replacement in hypogonadal males with absent or severely reduced endogenous LH and FSH secretion may have long-term consequences for health and wellbeing. Specifically, body composition, bone health, glucose, and lipid metabolism, salt and water balance, cognition, mood, sleep, and sexual function could be affected. The steroidogenic differences could also be relevant for gonadotropin-suppressive treatments with long-acting testosterone preparations in males with primary hypogonadism. To what extent this hypothesis is true, should be addressed in future clinical studies.








This is the most recent paper on the use of hCG!

Pros and cons of using TRT vs HCG for treatment low-t symptoms

Human chorionic gonadotropin treatment: a viable option for management of secondary hypogonadism and male infertility (2020) Julius Fink, Brad J. Schoenfeld, Anthony C. Hackney, Takahiro Maekawa & Shigeo Horie Abstract Introduction: Low testosterone and its symptoms is a condition affecting...

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5.1 Effects on intratesticular testosterone

Exogenous testosterone administration suppresses intratesticular testosterone (ITT), which is crucial for the production of sperm [24]. In such patients, ITT has been shown to be suppressed by 94%. However, with every other day injections of HCG at dosages of 125IU, ITT was only 25% less than baseline, with 250IU 7% less and with 500IU 26% greater than the baseline [25].

In another study, 37 normal men were treated with GnRH antagonist acyline and attributed to one of the following low dose HCG groups: 0, 15, 60, or 125 IU sc every other day or 7.5 g daily testosterone gel for 10 days. In order to measure ITT, testicular fluid was retrieved via percutaneous aspiration at baseline and after 10 days of treatment. The median baseline ITT was 2508 nmol/liter.

ITT improved in a dose-dependent manner: 15 IU HCG group reached an ITT of 136 nmol, 60 IU HCG group reached an ITT of 319 nmol, 125 IU HCG group reached an ITT of 987 nmol/liter. Serum HCG significantly correlated with both ITT and serum testosterone [24,26].

*These studies indicate that HCG can significantly increase ITT in a dose-dependent manner and that dosages between 250 and 500 IU might be optimal to restore physiological ITT levels.




5.2 Effects on serum testosterone

A weekly dosage of 4500IU spread over 3 weekly injections has shown to lead to normal testosterone levels in isolated HH men [27]. Another study showed that single injections of 400IU, 2000IU, and 4000IU of HCG led to significant serum testosterone concentrations in hypogonadal as well as eugonadal males without differences among the groups after administration [28]. In hypogonadal men, 400IU, 2000IU, and 4000IU of HCG increased testosterone from about 200 to 400 ng/dl. In eugonadal men, 400IU, 2000IU, and 4000IU of HCG led to an increase from about 450 to 700 ng/dl in testosterone [28]. Interestingly, higher doses of HCG did not lead to greater testosterone level increases [28]. Another study showed similar results, with no differences in serum testosterone after single injections of 1500, 3000, or 4500IU of HCG, with testosterone increasing 24 hours post-injection and peaking 3-4 days later [29]. Serum testosterone peaked 3 days after injection [28].

From the above information, it can be suggested that low dose HCG (~500IU) injected 3 times per week can restore healthy serum and intratesticular testosterone levels in HH patients. The higher dosages used in infertility treatment to trigger sperm production might not be necessary if the goal is to increase serum testosterone levels. That is, combined treatment with HCG followed by rFSH might also be potent in order to induce fertility [21].

Indeed, HCG dosages used in the treatment of infertility can range from 3,000 to 10,000 IU 2-3 times per week [30]. One study showed that 3-6 months (1000 IU 3 times/week or 2000IU 2 times/week) of HCG treatment in 100 males with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism leads to normal serum testosterone concentrations despite the fact that 81 patients remained azoospermic [31]. These data show that low dose HCG treatment is very effective in restoring normal serum testosterone levels, however, spermatogenesis might require higher dosages of HCG. The exact mechanism by which HCG affects sperm production besides testosterone increase is not completely understood yet and needs further investigation. We summarized studies involving HCG treatment on testosterone and/or fertility parameters in Table 1.


* It is currently unknown if long-term administration of HCG can lead to side effects such as gonadotropin resistance. (Table 2)




10. Conclusion

HCG therapy is an effective treatment for patients suffering from infertility, often restoring healthy sperm production. However, HCG also increases serum and intratesticular testosterone levels, making it a prime candidate to treat patients with secondary hypogonadism. Even though the cost and injection frequency might be slightly higher as compared to TRT, HCG alone or used with TRT might be the best option for patients who desire to have children in the future. Depending on the response to HCG alone, concomitant TRT might be necessary to bring serum testosterone levels to the desired levels. Responses of serum testosterone levels seem to be independent of the dose of HCG and to peak 3 days post-injection. Therefore, low doses of ~400 IU HCG injected every 3 days intramuscularly or subcutaneously might lead to a significant increase of serum and intratesticular testosterone with few daily fluctuations in levels. Indeed, high dosages commonly seen in the treatment of male infertility going as high as 5000 IU several times per week might be unnecessary if the goal is not to increase sperm production but rather to increase testosterone only. In summary, HCG might be a safe, affordable, and effective method to restore healthy testosterone levels in males suffering from secondary hypogonadism. Nonetheless, further clinical trials should be carried out to demonstrate and elucidate the benefits of HCG therapy.




11. Expert opinion


*The HPG axis seems responsive to HCG in a similar fashion as LH and self-regulates the testosterone production within the testes in an amount of independent manner. Doses of HCG as low as 400 IU seem to significantly increase serum testosterone levels and even with dosages, 10 times that amount (4000 IU), the serum testosterone elevations seem similar to that of a 400 IU dosage (i.e., remaining within the physiological range). Rather than sensing the amount of HCG and accordingly producing testosterone, even small amounts of HCG seem to maximize the response for testosterone production within the testes probably due to receptor sensitivity.

 

[madman]

I have noticed a similar effect by using HCG at 250iu EOD for 3 months followed by a 1 - 2 month break. i had been reducing my HCG use due to anxiety. i used HCG for years without issue, but it started to cause me anxiety issues which i 'confirmed' through starting and stopping HCG. During this adjustment period, i have tried several different variations of dose/frequency and i have been able to prevent the anxiety from returning but the process also created periods of increased libido that coincides with the protocol change. So far using HCG for 2 - 3 months will keep libido higher for close to the 3 month mark after which, stopping the HCG will improve my libido again, to a similar perceived level, for over a month and possibly 2 months. I'm still experimenting with this to try and confirm that it is working as I perceive and that it is repeatable over time. The next question is....
Does using HCG in this stop/start way cause any issues?

* It is currently unknown if long-term administration of HCG can lead to side effects such as gonadotropin resistance.

 

[M.J]

* It is currently unknown if long-term administration of HCG can lead to side effects such as gonadotropin resistance.

Thanks mad man for your informative post, in this case I will maintain 250 as it did result in better libido, I have yet to understand if I need it eod or maybe twice a week not sure.
But I am concerned about fertility so not going below 250.

I am also doing fsh 75 eod any idea with is maximum or minimum dose recommended ? Hospital is running out of 75 and the only option is 150, maybe this is too much right ?

 

[madman]

Thanks mad man for your informative post, in this case I will maintain 250 as it did result in better libido, I have yet to understand if I need it eod or maybe twice a week not sure.
But I am concerned about fertility so not going below 250.

I am also doing fsh 75 eod any idea with is maximum or minimum dose recommended ? Hospital is running out of 75 and the only option is 150, maybe this is too much right ?

Definitely would look into bumping up your dose to 150 IU if $$$ is not an issue.

*In everyday clinical practice, traditional treatment includes the administration of hCG (1000–1500 IU) and FSH (75–150 IU) 2 to 3 times per week.




Fig. (2). Induction of spermatogenesis in males with post-pubertal onset hypogonadotropic hypogonadism