Off TRT for over 3 months, interesting results

[jonezee2014]

I was previously on TRT for almost 8 years. During that time I struggled getting dialed in as I would never have consistent energy, focus, sexual function, fat loss and pretty much any of the benefits of TRT. I would get "spurts" of the benefits for a week at a time and then they would diminish. My dosages ranged from 50mg up to 200mg cypionate weekly with varying results as I worked with various doctors to get things right. One of the big problems I had was I was never able to have consistent fat loss. 3 months ago I went off testosterone and almost immediately the fat loss happened. I'm sure some of it was water weight but I've been able to loose over 35lbs and the fat loss is continuing since being off. I am taking semaglutide and it wasn't having any effect until I went off testosterone. I'm much weaker in the gym and workouts seem to be not as productive though. One of the major problems I also had was lack of sensitivity during sex, it wasn't as enjoyable and sometimes I wouldn't have an orgasm or it would take forever. The primary reason for this post is that as of a couple of days ago, my anxiety has started to come back and severe fatigue is happening on a daily basis which is what put me on my TRT journey in the first place. For additional context, I had a vasectomy 8 years ago and my total T came back around 130 (they didn't measure free T back then for me). Many of the doctors I've worked with think that the statin I was on prior to the vasectomy contributed to a cascade of problems but I'm convinced that once I was snipped that is when all the problems really started happening. One more thing to note- my penis sensitivity issues, while improving slightly, were never really back to "normal" during this past 3 months. Also, I am a low SHBG guy.

Not wanting to go back to gaining bodyfat again by going on TRT again I recalled that the times I had improved some of these issues while on testosterone by taking anastrozole. I tried .125mg of it yesterday within a few hours much of my anxiety subsided. I also had sex and it was the best and most sensitive it's been since before I started this entire journey. Almost felt "normal" again. My fatigue went away as well.

I'm scratching my head because I'm not taking any exogenous testosterone yet the AI improved my symptoms. I imagine my natural production which is probably in the toilet right now (I don't have recent labs right now and know I probably should get them) is what the AI is blocking from aromatizing. I'm trying to understand the mechanisms here so I can possibly get to the bottom of this problem since the vasectomy. Also I know that AI use is looked down upon but it's the only thing that helped me feel better. Any thoughts?

 

[Vince]

I was previously on TRT for almost 8 years. During that time I struggled getting dialed in as I would never have consistent energy, focus, sexual function, fat loss and pretty much any of the benefits of TRT. I would get "spurts" of the benefits for a week at a time and then they would diminish. My dosages ranged from 50mg up to 200mg cypionate weekly with varying results as I worked with various doctors to get things right. One of the big problems I had was I was never able to have consistent fat loss. 3 months ago I went off testosterone and almost immediately the fat loss happened. I'm sure some of it was water weight but I've been able to loose over 35lbs and the fat loss is continuing since being off. I am taking semaglutide and it wasn't having any effect until I went off testosterone. I'm much weaker in the gym and workouts seem to be not as productive though. One of the major problems I also had was lack of sensitivity during sex, it wasn't as enjoyable and sometimes I wouldn't have an orgasm or it would take forever. The primary reason for this post is that as of a couple of days ago, my anxiety has started to come back and severe fatigue is happening on a daily basis which is what put me on my TRT journey in the first place. For additional context, I had a vasectomy 8 years ago and my total T came back around 130 (they didn't measure free T back then for me). Many of the doctors I've worked with think that the statin I was on prior to the vasectomy contributed to a cascade of problems but I'm convinced that once I was snipped that is when all the problems really started happening. One more thing to note- my penis sensitivity issues, while improving slightly, were never really back to "normal" during this past 3 months. Also, I am a low SHBG guy.

Not wanting to go back to gaining bodyfat again by going on TRT again I recalled that the times I had improved some of these issues while on testosterone by taking anastrozole. I tried .125mg of it yesterday within a few hours much of my anxiety subsided. I also had sex and it was the best and most sensitive it's been since before I started this entire journey. Almost felt "normal" again. My fatigue went away as well.

I'm scratching my head because I'm not taking any exogenous testosterone yet the AI improved my symptoms. I imagine my natural production which is probably in the toilet right now (I don't have recent labs right now and know I probably should get them) is what the AI is blocking from aromatizing. I'm trying to understand the mechanisms here so I can possibly get to the bottom of this problem since the vasectomy. Also I know that AI use is looked down upon but it's the only thing that helped me feel better. Any thoughts?

It actually seems like you are having struggles on TRT and off TRT. You may have very high estrogen levels but with no labs you don't know.

 

[MDavidW76]

Hmm, statin and vasectomy, I feel like I’m in the same boat sometimes

 

[Systemlord]

I'm scratching my head because I'm not taking any exogenous testosterone yet the AI improved my symptoms.

You're robbing Peter to pay Paul, the AI is a bandaid fix and your robbing yourself of estrogen.

The AI is blocking aromatase and Free T may be a little higher as a result.

You still haven't fix the core problem which is a T deficiency and I don't see this working in the long term.

 

[MIP1950]

Review the thread only happy when estradiol is VERY low

I'm revisiting this, as I avoided using an AI for years. Might very well have helped me. Now using anastrozole;.25 mg 3X weekly with 100 mg, Test E, IM, E5D. Over the years, tried anastrozole @ .25 weekly or twice a week. Nada. That's why now the aforementioned dosing. Far too early to assess but had two nocturnal erections during the week. Libido is strong and having sexual dreams. The OP for that thread, @ggenovez, ultimately found significant improvements at .5 mg 7X weekly, but there are men who found improvements with .25 once or 2X weekly or 1 mg weekly. We're all lab rats and one size does not fit all.

 

[Systemlord]

Inflammation causes low-T which then increases body fat and therefore increases the estrogen.

Fix the inflammation and fix the problem.

 

[MIP1950]

Inflammation causes low-T which then increases body fat and therefore increases the estrogen.

Fix the inflammation and fix the problem.

Just got my labs. TT: 889 FT: 240 E2(sensitive) 61. High hsCRP. I read, today, that stress, alone, can increase inflammation. Got a truck load between bipolar, poor sleep and my wife's worsening dementia. Diet is salmon, sardines and shrimp. Lots of Omega-3. And cold pressed extra virgin olive oil. I also take 10,000 IU of vitamin D everyday but my serum level is low; 38, up from 28 in a year. Cellular resistance is a possibility. At this juncture, nothing seem to help quench inflammation. If I go to my primary, he'll want to put me on medications and I don't want medications.

Resolving inflammation isn't so simple, at least I don't believe so. If it's emanating from the gut, how does one go about turning it down or turning it off? Omega-3 is the quick suggestion. Vitamin E, vitamin A, selenium, zinc. Been down that road, too.

 

[Fortunate]

Just got my labs. TT: 889 FT: 240 E2(sensitive) 61. High hsCRP. I read, today, that stress, alone, can increase inflammation. Got a truck load between bipolar, poor sleep and my wife's worsening dementia. Diet is salmon, sardines and shrimp. Lots of Omega-3. And cold pressed extra virgin olive oil. I also take 10,000 IU of vitamin D everyday but my serum level is low; 38, up from 28 in a year. Cellular resistance is a possibility. At this juncture, nothing seem to help quench inflammation. If I go to my primary, he'll want to put me on medications and I don't want medications.

Resolving inflammation isn't so simple, at least I don't believe so. If it's emanating from the gut, how does one go about turning it down or turning it off? Omega-3 is the quick suggestion. Vitamin E, vitamin A, selenium, zinc. Been down that road, too.

How do you know you have inflammation? Do you have an ESR, CRP, rheumatoid factor, CBC, platelet count, etc.?

 

[Systemlord]

Just got my labs. TT: 889 FT: 240 E2(sensitive) 61.

For all I know your have high SHBG and Free T is low or suboptimal.

What are the ranges for the Free T?

 

[MIP1950]

O

For all I know your have high SHBG and Free T is low or suboptimal.

What are the ranges for the Free T?

It's Quest and my free T was above range. I think their top is 228.

 

[ajax31]

Just got my labs. TT: 889 FT: 240 E2(sensitive) 61. High hsCRP. I read, today, that stress, alone, can increase inflammation. Got a truck load between bipolar, poor sleep and my wife's worsening dementia. Diet is salmon, sardines and shrimp. Lots of Omega-3. And cold pressed extra virgin olive oil. I also take 10,000 IU of vitamin D everyday but my serum level is low; 38, up from 28 in a year. Cellular resistance is a possibility. At this juncture, nothing seem to help quench inflammation. If I go to my primary, he'll want to put me on medications and I don't want medications.

Resolving inflammation isn't so simple, at least I don't believe so. If it's emanating from the gut, how does one go about turning it down or turning it off? Omega-3 is the quick suggestion. Vitamin E, vitamin A, selenium, zinc. Been down that road, too.

Tocotrienol supplements may help with inflammation if you don’t want prescription medication.

Anti-inflammatory Activity of Tocotrienols in Age-related Pathologies: A SASPected Involvement of Cellular Senescence - Biological Procedures Online

Fiisetin can also be used to target senescent cells but that remains experimental at this point.

Magnesium is necessary to metabolize vitamin D3 into its active form. It’s likely your stubbornly low serum vitamin D level is a result of low magnesium levels.

Make sure you take a good magnesium supplement- citrate, glycinate or the Cadillac version such as ReMag (magnesium chloride).

 

[MIP1950]

Tocotrienol supplements may help with inflammation if you don’t want prescription medication.

Anti-inflammatory Activity of Tocotrienols in Age-related Pathologies: A SASPected Involvement of Cellular Senescence - Biological Procedures Online

Fiisetin can also be used to target senescent cells but that remains experimental at this point.

Magnesium is necessary to metabolize vitamin D3 into its active form. It’s likely your stubbornly low serum vitamin D level is a result of low magnesium levels.

Make sure you take a good magnesium supplement- citrate, glycinate or the Cadillac version such as ReMag (magnesium chloride).

Switching to water soluble, dry vitamin D. About 14 or 15 years ago, I was taking 5000 IU, daily, without magnesium, and my blood level was 91. My primary freaked out and told me I had hypervitamitosis, though I didn't have any symptoms of it. I knew what to look for. So I took it a little less often, my level dropped to 80 and she was happy. Then went back to my regular dosing schedule. My urologist says a level of 70 to 100 is optimal. As for magnesium, I can't handle too much and I've tried all the types you mention. Magnesium, for me, is disruptive to my sleep and makes me hyper, instead of relaxing me. Sublingual worked for a few days, then the upregulated tyrosine hydroxylase enzyme raised dopamine and blood pressure. Headaches, irritable, angry. I'll just get my mag from food(OJ, canned salmon, sardines, shrimp).

 

[equel]

Review the thread only happy when estradiol is VERY low

I'm revisiting this, as I avoided using an AI for years. Might very well have helped me. Now using anastrozole;.25 mg 3X weekly with 100 mg, Test E, IM, E5D. Over the years, tried anastrozole @ .25 weekly or twice a week. Nada. That's why now the aforementioned dosing. Far too early to assess but had two nocturnal erections during the week. Libido is strong and having sexual dreams. The OP for that thread, @ggenovez, ultimately found significant improvements at .5 mg 7X weekly, but there are men who found improvements with .25 once or 2X weekly or 1 mg weekly. We're all lab rats and one size does not fit all.

Dr rand McClain is known to use 2-3mg a week of ai with 200mg of test with his patients, thousands of them and the makority feel very very well on that protocol. He is the doc for Jay cutler and many other bbs.

This shit bout being scared of AI in this community is redicilous.

 

[Systemlord]

This shit bout being scared of AI in this community is redicilous.

When all the studies show harm, it's hard to ignore. AI's cause hair loss, bone loss and mess with your lipids.

 

[Systemlord]

Dr rand McClain is known to use 2-3mg a week of ai with 200mg of test with his patients, thousands of them and the makority feel very very well on that protocol. He is the doc for Jay cutler and many other bbs.

I wonder what those bodybuilders dexa scans look like.

 

[jonezee2014]

When all the studies show harm, it's hard to ignore. AI's cause hair loss, bone loss and mess with your lipids.

Are there actual studies? I did some cursory searches but couldn't find them but I'm probably not searching properly. I do recall Nelson mentioning at some point the apprehensions about the use of AIs because there were no studies justifying/supporting their use.

 

[Kuhlsnu]

Are there actual studies? I did some cursory searches but couldn't find them but I'm probably not searching properly. I do recall Nelson mentioning at some point the apprehensions about the use of AIs because there were no studies justifying/supporting their use.

The studies people use to dislike AIs are referencing it for its original purpose in women. It's a bit unknown what long-term issues may occur, but we know that a man needs some estrogen, which probably needs to reflect his SHBG 1:1.

 

[Kuhlsnu]

I was previously on TRT for almost 8 years. During that time I struggled getting dialed in as I would never have consistent energy, focus, sexual function, fat loss and pretty much any of the benefits of TRT. I would get "spurts" of the benefits for a week at a time and then they would diminish. My dosages ranged from 50mg up to 200mg cypionate weekly with varying results as I worked with various doctors to get things right. One of the big problems I had was I was never able to have consistent fat loss. 3 months ago I went off testosterone and almost immediately the fat loss happened. I'm sure some of it was water weight but I've been able to loose over 35lbs and the fat loss is continuing since being off. I am taking semaglutide and it wasn't having any effect until I went off testosterone. I'm much weaker in the gym and workouts seem to be not as productive though. One of the major problems I also had was lack of sensitivity during sex, it wasn't as enjoyable and sometimes I wouldn't have an orgasm or it would take forever. The primary reason for this post is that as of a couple of days ago, my anxiety has started to come back and severe fatigue is happening on a daily basis which is what put me on my TRT journey in the first place. For additional context, I had a vasectomy 8 years ago and my total T came back around 130 (they didn't measure free T back then for me). Many of the doctors I've worked with think that the statin I was on prior to the vasectomy contributed to a cascade of problems but I'm convinced that once I was snipped that is when all the problems really started happening. One more thing to note- my penis sensitivity issues, while improving slightly, were never really back to "normal" during this past 3 months. Also, I am a low SHBG guy.

Not wanting to go back to gaining bodyfat again by going on TRT again I recalled that the times I had improved some of these issues while on testosterone by taking anastrozole. I tried .125mg of it yesterday within a few hours much of my anxiety subsided. I also had sex and it was the best and most sensitive it's been since before I started this entire journey. Almost felt "normal" again. My fatigue went away as well.

I'm scratching my head because I'm not taking any exogenous testosterone yet the AI improved my symptoms. I imagine my natural production which is probably in the toilet right now (I don't have recent labs right now and know I probably should get them) is what the AI is blocking from aromatizing. I'm trying to understand the mechanisms here so I can possibly get to the bottom of this problem since the vasectomy. Also I know that AI use is looked down upon but it's the only thing that helped me feel Better. Any thoughts

I've had similar issues after my vasectomy, but no one believes it's a cause. My testosterone and sperm count used to be so high before I had mine that I had to have two vasectomies as I broke the cautery where they snipped it. Every since the second snip, I started to lose libido. I was finally checked, which was less than half of what I was.

I also experienced the ups and down of TRT but I've theorized that you can bump your own production if your natural production of estrogen is too high for your current set point. I can't fathom how a vasectomy could cause this. I'm also 3 months out from coming off TRT and have almost no libido.

With less aromatase at a consistent dose, the GnRH will release more due to a lack of e2 central feedback.

It's similar to a SERM like Clomid or tamoxifen, but rather than blocking the e2 receptor; you're blocking the e2 hormone, which makes more sense. Your testosterone should increase, and your e2 stays the same.

 

[MIP1950]

Dr rand McClain is known to use 2-3mg a week of ai with 200mg of test with his patients, thousands of them and the makority feel very very well on that protocol. He is the doc for Jay cutler and many other bbs.

This shit bout being scared of AI in this community is redicilous.

I've heard his name but that's it. Have to look him up on YouTube. Thanks. You always have interesting things to say and share.

 

[bixt]

Dr rand McClain is known to use 2-3mg a week of ai with 200mg of test with his patients, thousands of them and the makority feel very very well on that protocol. He is the doc for Jay cutler and many other bbs.

This shit bout being scared of AI in this community is redicilous.

Go ahead and do it...please kindly provide feedback as well.