Help me with my protocol, and Why does my skin get so bad without HCG?

[rockettrt]

When I'm not using HCG I feel much better. I have a stronger libido and morning wood and erections that are strong (libido and erectile function still not perfect though). I feel more like a man. But my facial skin has a constant coating of oil, is slightly ruddy and bumpy looking, I have 3 or 4 small hard zits at any time, and my skin is more sensitive - it really fucks with my confidence

When I am using it, my libido sucks, sleep sucks, and erections all but disappear. But my skin is clear, acne free, smooth, clean, and less easily irritated.

I am trying to figure out what the hell I can do. There has to be a way to get the best of both worlds.

If it was just a zit here or there I wouldn't care, but the constant acne and coating of oil on my cheeks and forehead looking like bacon grease kills my confidence.

These symptoms are unanimous among the HCG protocols I've tried (500 2x wk, 400 2x wk, 300iu e3d, 250iu e3d, 200iu 2x wk, 80-100iu ed).

Here are my labs from a previous protocol of 55mg test e3d and 250iu HCG e3d. I skipped one HCG injection before the test.

T: 877
Free T: 20
e2: 31
Dht: 51
Shbg: 23

On a 40mg e3d protocol with no HCG

T: 680
Free t: 13
e2: 16
Dht: 61
Shbg: 33

Felt better on 40mg protocol.

Normal thyroid, and igf-1 is usually around 160.

Do I have to move to 150iu e3d + 30-40mg cyp e3d, or microdosing, like 50iu per day or even less frequently?

 

[Vince Carter]

Lots of guys do not like what comes along with HCG use, I am one. I only use 200iu once per week. If it's complicating things just drop it or try it once per week. The negatives is probably due to an Estrogen bump youre getting. To an AI is less effective in the testicular environment so you can't quite deal with it that way very effectively.

 

[rockettrt]

Lots of guys do not like what comes along with HCG use, I am one. I only use 200iu once per week. If it's complicating things just drop it or try it once per week. The negatives is probably due to an Estrogen bump youre getting. To an AI is less effective in the testicular environment so you can't quite deal with it that way very effectively.

The problem with dropping it completely is my skin goes to hell and my balls start to get uncomfortable too. Is once per week better than the smaller dose twice per week?

 

[Vince Carter]

Like you I tried all these doses and combos with HCG and I just settled on once per week. My nuts are not shrunk and do not hurt, FWIW.

 

[CoastWatcher]

If something makes you feel worse on your protocol, no matter what anyone else says, think hard about eliminating it. HCG does nothing for me, and I've gone through periods where I abandoned it just to see what would happen. Nothing happened, other than a minimal loss of testicular size.

It's part of my protocol now because I do believe in trying to maintain some degree of vitality in my testicles. But my dose has dropped from 250/twice weekly to 200/twice weekly. Still more than my good friend Vince Carter uses.

Don't be hesitant to consider smaller/less frequent doses.

 

[rockettrt]

If something makes you feel worse on your protocol, no matter what anyone else says, think hard about eliminating it. HCG does nothing for me, and I've gone through periods where I abandoned it just to see what would happen. Nothing happened, other than a minimal loss of testicular size.

It's part of my protocol now because I do believe in trying to maintain some degree of vitality in my testicles. But my dose has dropped from 250/twice weekly to 200/twice weekly. Still more than my good friend Vince Carter uses.

Don't be hesitant to consider smaller/less frequent doses.

Thank you coastwatcher. I wish I could drop it completely but it has massive improvements to my skin. It kills my confidence the way my skin looks when I drop it.

I was considering also dropping my t dose lower to compensate for the rise HCG gives? Would this be a good course of action as well? I am secondary so HCG is definitely making some T and E

 

[DragonBits]

you felt better on what turns out to be higher Total T and higher E2, caused by HCG.

Why not try increasing your testosterone injection enough to get similar results? Or just up is a little as you don't feel good with it's too high. That is the first thing I would try. Or try a small amount of testosterone cream daily. A little would get you higher on a more natural daily rhythm. Trickier is a small dose of an AI with a the larger testosterone injection, but it's difficult to adjust the dose of an AI.

Or as others have pointed out, a small dose of HCG.

 

[rockettrt]

you felt better on what turns out to be higher Total T and higher E2, caused by HCG.

Why not try increasing your testosterone injection enough to get similar results? Or just up is a little as you don't feel good with it's too high. That is the first thing I would try. Or try a small amount of testosterone cream daily. A little would get you higher on a more natural daily rhythm. Trickier is a small dose of an AI with a the larger testosterone injection, but it's difficult to adjust the dose of an AI.

Or as others have pointed out, a small dose of HCG.

Thanks for the advice - actually I felt better on the 40mg t only protocol. I would drop HCG completely but like I mentioned my skin gets awful no matter the T dose and my balls shrink.

For what it's worth I feel great the first week or two on HCG.

 

[Gman86]

It sounds like E2 might be causing your issues on HCG, just speculation though.

As far as a solution to your problem, the improvement with you skin on HCG could be due to the backfilling of downstream hormones. Have you ever thought about using pregnenolone to backfill these downstream hormones? What is your DHEA-S level?

 

[rockettrt]

It sounds like E2 might be causing your issues on HCG, just speculation though.

As far as a solution to your problem, the improvement with you skin on HCG could be due to the backfilling of downstream hormones. Have you ever thought about using pregnenolone to backfill these downstream hormones? What is your DHEA-S level?

The e2 could definitely could be something to do with it. I was going to drop my dose of t back down to 40 e3d and add in HCG again at 200 or 250iu e3d and try again.

I had a doctor who recommended pregnenolone and dhea along with my trt even though my dhea levels are always above 400 and my acth and cortisol salivary tests are normal. It improved my sleep but I felt very groggy during the day and my skin was the worst it's ever been. My dhea also shot up to over 1000. So my only experience with it was with the combo of dhea and preg.

 

[Gman86]

The e2 could definitely could be something to do with it. I was going to drop my dose of t back down to 40 e3d and add in HCG again at 200 or 250iu e3d and try again.

I had a doctor who recommended pregnenolone and dhea along with my trt even though my dhea levels are always above 400 and my acth and cortisol salivary tests are normal. It improved my sleep but I felt very groggy during the day and my skin was the worst it's ever been. My dhea also shot up to over 1000. So my only experience with it was with the combo of dhea and preg.

Wow a 1000? What dose of pregnenolone snd DHEA did he have you using? I wonder if your skin would of reacted that way if you were on just pregnenolone by itself. What form of pregnenolone was it, oral, sublingual, transdermal? Also what form was the DHEA, just curious.

 

[rockettrt]

Wow a 1000? What dose of pregnenolone snd DHEA did he have you using? I wonder if your skin would of reacted that way if you were on just pregnenolone by itself. What form of pregnenolone was it, oral, sublingual, transdermal? Also what form was the DHEA, just curious.

I was using the Pure Encapsulations brand of DHEA and Pregnenolone capsules. He had me taking I think 60mg of pregnenolone and 25mg of dhea at night immediately before bed. I am not too sure if there are different "types" of capsules so I just put up some links of the ones I used:

https://www.amazon.com/Pure-Encapsu...eywords=pure+encapsulations+pregnenolone+30mg

https://www.amazon.com/Pure-Encapsu...6910&sr=8-3&keywords=pure+encapsulations+dhea

Do you think it would be worth trying on its own, or does it sound like my pregenenolone function is already pretty good given my DHEA and cortisol in good ranges?

 

[Gman86]

Good questions, I wonder the same about myself. My DHEA has always been about at the top of the range, before TRT, and during. I’ve had my pregnenolone tested, and it always comes back at basically zero. It will just say <5. I’ve heard that the pregnenolone test is unreliable, but then I’ve seen many people get the test done, then start supplementing with pregnenolone, and their level on the test goes up. So it seems like it at least can pickup some level of this hormone. Whether that’s accurate or not, who knows. But I’ve had the test done many times, and it always comes back <5, while I’ve seen many others report having levels like 40, or 80, and in the 100’s. So the fact that mine keeps coming back so low, makes me think I need to supplement.

The main reason I want to supplement with it is because I have a ton of brain fog, my memory is really bad, I’m always word finding, my eyes feel like they have a hard time focusing, I feel like nature doesn’t feel or look as beautiful as it used to. These are all things that pregnenolone supposedly can improve.

What made me want to try transdermal pregnenolone, opposed to oral or sublingual, was the fact that I just listened to a podcast with Dr. Crisler where he mentions that he puts every single one of his patients on transdermal pregnenolone. He says he likes it better over oral because it reacts in the body differently, and some of the side effects can be avoided, or minimized. He says he just has better luck with transdermal. So I think it wouldn’t be the worst idea for you to give transdermal pregnenolone a try, starting at a very low dosage.

Also, I’ve tried taking pure encapsulations pregnenolone. I tried taking 10mg per day, but it seemed like it made my brain fog worse, and I didn’t sleep as good. I only trialed it for like a week. It kind of turned me off from pregnenolone. But I’m gonna give transdermal a shot, and just start out with a very low dose, and titrate up if needed, and see how it goes.

Here’s the podcast I was talking about with Dr. Crisler.
SHR # 2071 :: Pregnenolone the Progenitor Hormone :: from Super Human Radio

 

[rockettrt]

Good questions, I wonder the same about myself. My DHEA has always been about at the top of the range, before TRT, and during. I’ve had my pregnenolone tested, and it always comes back at basically zero. It will just say <5. I’ve heard that the pregnenolone test is unreliable, but then I’ve seen many people get the test done, then start supplementing with pregnenolone, and their level on the test goes up. So it seems like it at least can pickup some level of this hormone. Whether that’s accurate or not, who knows. But I’ve had the test done many times, and it always comes back <5, while I’ve seen many others report having levels like 40, or 80, and in the 100’s. So the fact that mine keeps coming back so low, makes me think I need to supplement.

The main reason I want to supplement with it is because I have a ton of brain fog, my memory is really bad, I’m always word finding, my eyes feel like they have a hard time focusing, I feel like nature doesn’t feel or look as beautiful as it used to. These are all things that pregnenolone supposedly can improve.

What made me want to try transdermal pregnenolone, opposed to oral or sublingual, was the fact that I just listened to a podcast with Dr. Crisler where he mentions that he puts every single one of his patients on transdermal pregnenolone. He says he likes it better over oral because it reacts in the body differently, and some of the side effects can be avoided, or minimized. He says he just has better luck with transdermal. So I think it wouldn’t be the worst idea for you to give transdermal pregnenolone a try, starting at a very low dosage.

Also, I’ve tried taking pure encapsulations pregnenolone. I tried taking 10mg per day, but it seemed like it made my brain fog worse, and I didn’t sleep as good. I only trialed it for like a week. It kind of turned me off from pregnenolone. But I’m gonna give transdermal a shot, and just start out with a very low dose, and titrate up if needed, and see how it goes.

Here’s the podcast I was talking about with Dr. Crisler.
SHR # 2071 :: Pregnenolone the Progenitor Hormone :: from Super Human Radio

Thank you very much for your advice and insight, I will definitely look into this more.