Dose Change Side Effects

[Azza23]

Hi guys,

I just switched to a daily protocol of 24mg after spending a few weeks on 100mg E3D.

This E3D protocol kicked the shit out of me, I dont think I respond well to having so much T at one time. The anxiety and thoughts were nightmarish plus the lethagy is real.

Is there anything that you would recommend to help through the process of a dosage change i.e. supplements, more sleep, more/less cardio, more/less weights. Or is it just a case of grinning and bearing it until the 8 week mark?

 

[Vince]

Hi guys,

I just switched to a daily protocol of 24mg after spending a few weeks on 100mg E3D.

This E3D protocol kicked the shit out of me, I dont think I respond well to having so much T at one time. The anxiety and thoughts were nightmarish plus the lethagy is real.

Is there anything that you would recommend to help through the process of a dosage change i.e. supplements, more sleep, more/less cardio, more/less weights. Or is it just a case of grinning and bearing it until the 8 week mark?

Injecting 24 MG of testosterone daily, is way too high. Your levels will be crazy high. I would drop to 16 or less if you going to do dailies.

 

[Azza23]

Thanks mate.

I tried EOD 30mg before and my free T and E2 levels dropped way too far.

Ill try 20mg which takes me to 140mg as opposed 168mg if I was doing 24mg

Injecting 24 MG of testosterone daily, is way too high. Your levels will be crazy high. I would drop to 16 or less if you going to do

 

[Vince]

Thanks mate.

I tried EOD 30mg before and my free T and E2 levels dropped way too far.

Ill try 20mg which takes me to 140mg as opposed 168mg if I was doing 24mg

I believe all your issues are being caused by too high of testosterone dose. You need to lower it.

 

[Sergel]

Been there, I now inject 100mg per week which is my sweet spot... however, at higher doses 160 -140 - 120 man I was anxious and felt like shit... I used to do eod but switch E3.5D now, 50mg each shot and my levels are in the 600 to 700 and I feel great... I wish I had done the opposite, start low and go higher if I felt off... Less is more with T...

If you are into body building, then it is another ball game completely, cycles are typically short then you go into a cruise period to get yourself back down. Keeping constant supra physiological levels is hard on the system, at least it is on mine...

 

[madman]

Hi guys,

I just switched to a daily protocol of 24mg after spending a few weeks on 100mg E3D.

This E3D protocol kicked the shit out of me, I dont think I respond well to having so much T at one time. The anxiety and thoughts were nightmarish plus the lethagy is real.

Is there anything that you would recommend to help through the process of a dosage change i.e. supplements, more sleep, more/less cardio, more/less weights. Or is it just a case of grinning and bearing it until the 8 week mark?

I just switched to a daily protocol of 24mg after spending a few weeks on 100mg E3D.

100mg T every 3 days which is over 200 mg/week is a whopping dose of T let alone 24 mg daily 168 mg/week is a fairly hefty dose especially if you have low SHBG.

Such a dose of T would have your TT/FT/e2 levels very high let alone absurdly high in many cases.


This E3D protocol kicked the shit out of me, I dont think I respond well to having so much T at one time. The anxiety and thoughts were nightmarish plus the lethagy is real.

You think!

Forget the.....I dont think I respond well to having so much T at one time as you should be more concerned with your overall weekly dose of T and the impact regardless of injection frequency that it would have on not only your TT but more importantly FT level.

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

The only way to know where your FT level truly sits is to have it tested using an accurate assay such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).

Critical that you know where your SHBG sits as it will have a significant impact on TT/FT let alone can dictate what injection frequency may suit you best.


Is there anything that you would recommend to help through the process of a dosage change

Be sensible with the weekly dose of T used and it is more beneficial to start low and go slow to see how your body reacts to T.

You started off on a whopping dose of 100 mg T every 3 days (> 200 mg/week) and just switched over to a fairly high dose of 24 mg T daily (168 mg/week) which would most likely still have your TT/FT levels too high.

Keep in mind that when starting trt or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) there will be a temporary transition period.

Hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels STABILIZE (4-6 weeks when using enanthate/cypionate esters) during this transition the body is trying to ADJUST and even then once blood levels have stabilized it will take another 2-3 months for the body to fully adapt and this is the CRITICAL TIME PERIOD when one should gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.

Blood work is critical as not only do we want to know where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) will have our trough TT/FT/e2 levels but more importantly to make sure overall blood markers which would include RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit remain healthy.

*The goal of trt is to replace physiological levels of testosterone through the use of exogenous testosterone in order to achieve a healthy TT/FT level which will result in the relief/improvement of low-t symptoms while at the same time minimizing/avoiding any potential side effects (cosmetic/overall health) while keeping blood markers healthy long-term

 

[madman]

Thanks mate.

I tried EOD 30mg before and my free T and E2 levels dropped way too far.

Ill try 20mg which takes me to 140mg as opposed 168mg if I was doing 24mg

Post labs?

TT/FT/e2 and SHBG.

Was your FT even tested using an accurate assay (ED or UF)?

 

[Azza23]

Post labs?

TT/FT/e2 and SHBG.

Was your FT even tested using an accurate assay (ED or UF)?

I just switched to a daily protocol of 24mg after spending a few weeks on 100mg E3D.

100mg T every 3 days which is over 200 mg/week is a whopping dose of T let alone 24 mg daily 168 mg/week is a fairly hefty dose especially if you have low SHBG.

Such a dose of T would have your TT/FT/e2 levels very high let alone absurdly high in many cases.


This E3D protocol kicked the shit out of me, I dont think I respond well to having so much T at one time. The anxiety and thoughts were nightmarish plus the lethagy is real.

You think!

Forget the.....I dont think I respond well to having so much T at one time as you should be more concerned with your overall weekly dose of T and the impact regardless of injection frequency that it would have on not only your TT but more importantly FT level.

Although TT is important to know FT is what truly matters as it is the active unbound fraction of testosterone responsible for the positive effects.

The only way to know where your FT level truly sits is to have it tested using an accurate assay such as the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis or Ultrafiltration (next best).

Critical that you know where your SHBG sits as it will have a significant impact on FT let alone can dictate what injection frequency may suit you best.


Is there anything that you would recommend to help through the process of a dosage change

Be sensible with the weekly dose of T used and it is more beneficial to start low and go slow to see how your body reacts to T.

You started off on a whopping dose of 100 mg T every 3 days (> 200 mg/week) and just switched over to a fairly high dose of 24 mg T daily (168 mg/week) which would most likely still have your TT/FT levels too high.

Keep in mind that when starting trt or tweaking a protocol (dose T/injection frequency) there will be a temporary transition period.

Hormones will be in FLUX during the weeks leading up until blood levels STABILIZE (4-6 weeks when using enanthate/cypionate esters) during this transition the body is trying to ADJUST and even then once blood levels have stabilized it will take another 2-3 months for the body to fully adapt and this is the CRITICAL TIME PERIOD when one should gauge how they truly feel overall regarding relief/improvement of low-t symptoms.

Blood work is critical as not only do we want to know where said protocol (dose T/injection frequency) will have our trough TT/FT/e2 levels but more importantly to make sure overall blood markers which would include RBCs/hemoglobin/hematocrit remain healthy.

*The goal of trt is to replace physiological levels of testosterone through the use of exogenous testosterone in order to achieve a healthy TT/FT level which will result in the relief/improvement of low-t symptoms while at the same time minimizing/avoiding any potential side effects (cosmetic/overall health) while keeping blood markers healthy long-term

Thanks mate.

Im going to drop to 16mg a day going forward. Also got great news today that I have an appointment to see Dr Adrian Zentner who will hopefully put me on HCG.

One of my biggest issues is I have OCD have never been able to raise my e2 on TRT. OCD is symptom of low e2. The max I have been able to get it to is about 20 pg/ml.

When I was on 84mg of T a week my free T was 452 pmol/l, SHBG was 23, but my e2 was 14. Horrible place to be. Hence why I wanted to increase my T per week to increase my e2

 

[mooseman109]

I am with Vince on this. WAY too much. I do 12mg daily and that will keep my Free T around 20 and total 700ish. Back it down to 12-16.
What was teh driving force to switch? Were you doing fine on the previous dosage?

 

[gerardo]

Thanks mate.

Im going to drop to 16mg a day going forward. Also got great news today that I have an appointment to see Dr Adrian Zentner who will hopefully put me on HCG.

One of my biggest issues is I have OCD have never been able to raise my e2 on TRT. OCD is symptom of low e2. The max I have been able to get it to is about 20 pg/ml.

When I was on 84mg of T a week my free T was 452 pmol/l, SHBG was 23, but my e2 was 14. Horrible place to be. Hence why I wanted to increase my T per week to increase my e2

If I were you I would follow the advice of the staff and if after you are stable in the protocol and your E2 is still high and with symptoms of low E2 you can supplement with estradiol. Good luck!

 

[Azza23]

I am with Vince on this. WAY too much. I do 12mg daily and that will keep my Free T around 20 and total 700ish. Back it down to 12-16.
What was teh driving force to switch? Were you doing fine on the previous dosage?

Trying to get my low E2 to increase.

Never done fine on any of just the T protocols. Hoping the HCG is the missus piece