Anabolic steroids and TRT decrease SHBG, DHEA, pregnenolone and progesterone in men.

[Nelson Vergel]

Response of serum testosterone and its precursor steroids, SHBG and CBG to anabolic steroid and testosterone self-administration in man.

Ruokonen A, et al. J Steroid Biochem. 1985.



Abstract

The influence of high doses of testosterone and anabolic steroids on testicular endocrine function and on circulating steroid binding proteins, sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and cortisol binding globulin (CBG), were investigated in power athletes for 26 weeks of steroid self-administration and for the following 16 weeks after drug withdrawal. Serum testosterone and androstenedione concentrations increased (P less than 0.05) but pregnenolone, 17-hydroxypregnenolone, dehydroepiandrosterone, 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol, progesterone and 17-hydroxyprogesterone concentrations strongly decreased (P less than 0.001) during steroid administration. Serum pregnenolone, 17-hydroxypregnenolone and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate concentrations followed the changes of the corresponding unconjugated steroids but 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol and testosterone sulphate concentrations remained unchanged during the follow-up time. During drug administration SHBG concentrations decreased by about 80 to 90% and remained low even for the 16 weeks following steroid withdrawal. Steroid administration had no influence on serum CBG concentrations. In conclusion, self-administration of testosterone and anabolic steroids soon led to impairment of testicular endocrine function which was characterized by low concentrations of testosterone precursors, high ratios of testosterone to its precursor steroids and low SHBG concentrations. Decreased concentrations of SHBG and testicular steroids were still partly evident during the 16 weeks after drug withdrawal. The depressed circulating levels of dehydroepiandrosterone and its sulphate may indicate that the androgenic-anabolic steroids also suppress adrenal androgen production.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

This study shows that HCG increases not only intra-testicular testosterone (responsible for sperm production) but also 17-hydroxyprogesterone, androstenedione and DHEA . Is this part of the reason why men feel better on TRT + HCG?

Serum 17-hydroxyprogesterone strongly correlates with intratesticular testosterone in gonadotropin-suppressed normal men receiving various dosages of human chorionic gonadotropin

 

[Kirk]

In a nutshell:
hCG--> serum progesterone-->ITT--> 17-hydroxyprogesterone-->5-alpha-pregnan-3-alpha-ol-20-one (allopregnanolone), which is a neuroactive steroid that binds with GABA(A) receptor. Net result--> better sense of well-being.

 

[J2048b]

yup when im off hcg i feel like total crap... cant wait to grab up a few viles with my new script and start the hcg again


now with all this conversion why do we still see guys who have to use dhea and preg creams etc? and do we just run bw to check each to see if we are converting, or will there be tell tell signs if one is not?

 

[mike7]

In a nutshell:
hCG--> serum progesterone-->ITT--> 17-hydroxyprogesterone-->5-alpha-pregnan-3-alpha-ol-20-one (allopregnanolone), which is a neuroactive steroid that binds with GABA(A) receptor. Net result--> better sense of well-being.

Solid info. HCG for dummies

 

[ERO]

yup when im off hcg i feel like total crap... cant wait to grab up a few viles with my new script and start the hcg again


now with all this conversion why do we still see guys who have to use dhea and preg creams etc? and do we just run bw to check each to see if we are converting, or will there be tell tell signs if one is not?

That is a good point. For me, as long as take my 25mg of DHEA a day my DHEA-S level stays in the upper normal range, but if I stop it tanks in a few weeks - even though I have always used HCG.

 

[CoastWatcher]

That is a good point. For me, as long as take my 25mg of DHEA a day my DHEA-S level stays in the upper normal range, but if I stop it tanks in a few weeks - even though I have always used HCG.

ERO, what were your DHEA-S levels when you began the 25mg dose? How "upper" is "upper normal"? Thanks.

 

[ERO]

I was in the low end of the lower quartile before supplementing with DHEA and Pregnenolone and now I am in the upper quartile of the normal range. My last tests (done last week) put my DHEA-S at 345 in a scale where 'normal' was within a range of 71.6 to 375.4.

 

[Speed]

I was in the low end of the lower quartile before supplementing with DHEA and Pregnenolone and now I am in the upper quartile of the normal range. My last tests (done last week) put my DHEA-S at 345 in a scale where 'normal' was within a range of 71.6 to 375.4.

ERO, What's your dose and brand of DHEA and Pregnenolone ? Do you take them in the morning or evening ?

 

[ERO]

I just started using DHEA troches from Defy Medical. 25 mg in the morning and 25 mg in the evening. I don't feel anything from the morning dose, but the evening dose helps me relax and sleep as DHEA opposes cortisol and I have a tendency for my cortisol to spike at night instead of after i get up in the morning like it is supposed to do. For pregenonolone I use a cream that I get from amazon. The troches are expensive though and I will likely go back to 25 mg micronized capsules when I run out as they worked fine for me before. I have used several brands and they all worked fine for me.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Where you see a star in this diagram, that is where HCG works. When we shut down LH with TRT, these paths are also shut down. HCG starts them again.

 

[Loki]

In addition to HCG what else do you recommend for back filling?

 

[Vince Carter]

If HCG actually worked according to the diagram, you wouldn't need to add anything, or "backfill"; DHEA/Preg.

 

[drpepper68]

Where you see a star in this diagram, that is where HCG works. When we shut down LH with TRT, these paths are also shut down. HCG starts them again.

View attachment 2126

But would we ever see our LH and FSH numbers increase on our labs when on TRT? I have always been on HCG but my numbers are always 0 for both which I thought was correct.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

No. LH and FSH are shut down by TRT. hCG is an analog on LH but it does not show up as LH in blood tests.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Effect of TRT vs hCG/FSH on upstream hormone pathways.

The role of gonadotropins in testicular and adrenal androgen biosynthesis pathways -insights from males with congenital hypogonadotropic hypogonadism on hCG/rFSH and on testosterone replacement SUMMARY Objective: To delineate the role of gonadotropins in male androgen biosynthesis pathways...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Exploring pregnenolone supplementation:

Pregnenolone and Progesterone for Men: Pharmacokinetics and Studies

"Pregnenolone can be administered orally, subcutaneously, intravenously, intranasally, and topically/transdermally. Oral pregnenolone has high metabolism and low bioavailability.28 It is lipophilic and readily crosses the blood brain barrier. There is very limited data on the pharmacokinetics...

www.excelmale.com

 

[MDavidW76]

Exploring pregnenolone supplementation:

Pregnenolone and Progesterone for Men: Pharmacokinetics and Studies

"Pregnenolone can be administered orally, subcutaneously, intravenously, intranasally, and topically/transdermally. Oral pregnenolone has high metabolism and low bioavailability.28 It is lipophilic and readily crosses the blood brain barrier. There is very limited data on the pharmacokinetics...

www.excelmale.com

@Nelson Vergel
What about HMG instead of HCG?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

What about HMG instead of HCG?

That could work if you can find it AND afford it.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Effect of TRT vs hCG/FSH on upstream hormone pathways.

The role of gonadotropins in testicular and adrenal androgen biosynthesis pathways -insights from males with congenital hypogonadotropic hypogonadism on hCG/rFSH and on testosterone replacement SUMMARY Objective: To delineate the role of gonadotropins in male androgen biosynthesis pathways...

www.excelmale.com