Sleep... trouble staying asleep, awake at 3 AM daily

this may be in the wrong sub, if so please move accordingly. thanks!


For as long as I can remember I have had issues staying asleep. I know this was large in part due to my drinking at the time. Back then I wasnt sleeping, I was passing out. Even then I would tend to wake up rather early, not being able to get myself back into sleep mode.

I go to bed around 9 PM, will wake up around 1 AM or so, just to roll over or what not. At this point I can go right back to sleep. Then come 3 AM I wake up, not just a rolling over waking, but eyes open wide eyed ready to face the day awake! I have read that I may be having a cortisol spike at this time, causing my to wake up and stay up. On my days off it is the same way, however after I make coffee and play around on the PC for a bit I am able to go back to sleep for a hour or so. Example, 5 AM Ill go back to bed until 6 AM.

I know sleep is effecting my moods, health, and my overall well being. I just dont know what to do about it. Maybe 5 1/2 to 6 hours sleep is all I need? I highly doubt this is the case, as sometimes I will have a spell of 7+ hours sleep a night and my body/mind feel so much better.

I have tried Melatonin, this aids in falling asleep rather quickly, but I am not having trouble here. If I take too much of the Melatonin I will also have bad/strange dreams. Last one was human sized Black Widow Spiders running around, freaky!

Is it worth testing cortisol, or are there some other supplements I can try besides Melatonin. I have to be careful of what I take due to side effects with methadone. Oh yeah, I also take methadone dialy, let the head shaking begin, instant blame "add methadone". It sucks and I hate the fact that I am taking this and am trying to tapper off. But this waking up mumbo jumbo was happening log before methadone came into and destroyed my life.

any input is appreciated!

Have you discussed any of this with your doctor? Your thyroid levels, not simply TSH, have been evaluated? You mentioned cortisol - has it ever been looked at?

One thing I've read as i suffer from pretty similar is a drop in blood sugar around that time of night. If I wake and have trouble, sometimes i can get back to sleep, I get up, pee, and eat a spoonful of peanut butter. Maybe it helps, maybe not, just something I'm trying the nights that I struggle.

CoastWatcher said:

Have you discussed any of this with your doctor? Your thyroid levels, not simply TSH, have been evaluated? You mentioned cortisol - has it ever been looked at?

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I have not, I havent been back to my Dr since getting off his 200mg once per month protocol and switching to Defy. I guess its time to face him.

Vince Carter said:

One thing I've read as i suffer from pretty similar is a drop in blood sugar around that time of night. If I wake and have trouble, sometimes i can get back to sleep, I get up, pee, and eat a spoonful of peanut butter. Maybe it helps, maybe not, just something I'm trying the nights that I struggle.

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I will try this tomorrow at 3 AM when I wake up

cja said:

I have not, I havent been back to my Dr since getting off his 200mg once per month protocol and switching to Defy. I guess its time to face him.



I will try this tomorrow at 3 AM when I wake up

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Excuse me if I misunderstood, but Dr. Saya and the medical staff at Defy manage patients with thyroid/adrenal-cortisol issues (and much else). Perhaps you can inquire with Defy?

I will bring it up at my follow up in a few weeks. I have not discussed this with them, or my PCP. I would like to use my PCP for the use of my insurance though.

I just read that Melatonin is out of the system in 4 hours, and the reduction signals the brain to wake up. They make time release Melatonin, may look into this too.

cja said:

I have not, I havent been back to my Dr since getting off his 200mg once per month protocol and switching to Defy. I guess its time to face him.



I will try this tomorrow at 3 AM when I wake up

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My god 200mg per month..........................that doctor should be neutered!

Yeah, IMO this would warrant a 24 hour saliva test. I would suggest getting a cortisol lab kit that will also provide you the DHEA saliva result with correlation to coritisol. Talk with Defy about your situation when you do the follow up ...

Vince Carter said:

One thing I've read as i suffer from pretty similar is a drop in blood sugar around that time of night. If I wake and have trouble, sometimes i can get back to sleep, I get up, pee, and eat a spoonful of peanut butter. Maybe it helps, maybe not, just something I'm trying the nights that I struggle.

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You can try to stabilize sugars overnight with a casein protein shake or a piece of cheese and a cracker before bed.

I also wake every morning around 3 or so but not from low blood sugar. Not sure what it is, I'd like to find out somehow though. I will be getting checked for hypothyroid so I wonder it's that could be it.

Well I tried the peanut butter, didnt seem to work. I had woke up at 1 and ate the spoonful, was awake at 3 again.

Vettester Chris said:

Yeah, IMO this would warrant a 24 hour saliva test. I would suggest getting a cortisol lab kit that will also provide you the DHEA saliva result with correlation to coritisol. Talk with Defy about your situation when you do the follow up ...

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I do/did have low DHEA, I am taking 25mg daily. Any relation between the two, like one is low so the other is high?

@rhino5169 mentioned checking the thyroid. If I remember correctly my mom has to take some thyroid pills for the rest of her life.

Definitely speak with the doctor, but this is more natural than many think. I wrote this about it after doing some research:

http://mindbodycoach.org/got-insomnia-guess/

cja, you may consider checking out ZMA. I know some people use it for sleep, the recommendation is to take it before bed, on an empty stomach.

Mountain Man said:

Definitely speak with the doctor, but this is more natural than many think. I wrote this about it after doing some research:

http://mindbodycoach.org/got-insomnia-guess/

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That is crazy! When I awaken I will end up making coffee, reading forums, playing a game or something. After a good 1.5 hours I am able to crawl back into bed (on days off) and get another 2 hours of sleep easily. When I do this I feel great! Unfortunately as I am trying to go back too sleep like this, often my wife will be waking up for the day. Then its off to the races, as there is always so much to do with so little time.

I have little problem getting to sleep but it's staying asleep thru the night that is my problem. My saliva Cortisol, twice, has been pretty low all the way around so I eliminated that as my early morning disruptor.

Vince said:

cja, you may consider checking out ZMA. I know some people use it for sleep, the recommendation is to take it before bed, on an empty stomach.

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It does help but I stopped it because it lowers estradial and mine is super low already between 8 - 10.

It can also raise cholesterol levels.

I take magnesium now, and along with niacin is what I suspect has lowered my blood pressure.

I used to have this same sleep issue and in my case, it was a cortisol spike at the wrong time. 2-3AM instead of around 8AM. Taking my DHEA dose with dinner or before bed helped block the late night cortisol spike and I do sleep a lot better now.

was about to order that ZMA, when I see it is Zinc, Magnesium, and B-6. I have Magnesium and B-6 already. If I add Zinc Ill get the same results, may need to adjust dose of my B-6 and Magnesium to match the ZMA. Will do this until I drain the 2 I already have.

cja said:

was about to order that ZMA, when I see it is Zinc, Magnesium, and B-6. I have Magnesium and B-6 already. If I add Zinc Ill get the same results, may need to adjust dose of my B-6 and Magnesium to match the ZMA. Will do this until I drain the 2 I already have.

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I use Jarrow zinc balance combined with magnesium bisglycinate as I would rather avoid aspartates.

cja said:

was about to order that ZMA, when I see it is Zinc, Magnesium, and B-6. I have Magnesium and B-6 already. If I add Zinc Ill get the same results, may need to adjust dose of my B-6 and Magnesium to match the ZMA. Will do this until I drain the 2 I already have.

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Hi CIA,
I wanted to check if you ever found a solution and what was it? I am having very similar issues and I wanted to see if there were any lessons learned.

Thanks,

sebco said:

Hi CIA,
I wanted to check if you ever found a solution and what was it? I am having very similar issues and I wanted to see if there were any lessons learned.

Thanks,

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No I sure havent. In fact in recent weeks it has gotten worse. I now am waking at 2:30 wide awake. It doesnt matter what time I go to bed either.